Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on March 10th, 2016

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

Is my time up?

[The Chair, Liberal, Andy Fillmore]

No, you still have a minute.

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

I have one final question, and it's regarding being consistent in negotiations.

We have a lot of issues across the Northwest Territories on cross-border land claim negotiations on land on different sides of the borders. We have the Densuline, who have a claim in the Northwest Territories that was put forward. The federal government said we're going to carve out a piece without support or consultation with the Government of the Northwest Territories, yet we have the Fort Liard Dene and Métis, who are negotiating and have traditional lands on the B.C. and the Yukon side, but there's no consideration for them.

There's also the same issue with the Gwich'in on the northern part of the Northwest Territories, who also have rights in the Yukon side.

I'm looking to see how we're going to balance that out so that we can be consistent and not do one thing for one group and not do it for the other.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

I think that's the magic of hoping to go forward. I think we have some coming forward shortly that do deal with transboundary claims and I think you'll be happy to see those, because it means that people have been talking to one another.

[The Chair, Liberal, Andy Fillmore]

Okay. Thank you very much for that.

We're moving directly now into the five-minute questions. It had been our plan to move into supplementary estimates questions now, but as the minister has invited us, feel free to ask questions on either on her mandate or on the supplementary estimates.

We're switching to five-minute questions now.

Arnold Viersen has the floor.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you to the minister for coming here this evening. I really appreciate it.

In my riding and in David's riding we have a unique situation, in that we had a settlement with the Alberta government and the Métis people back in 1938, and it gave the Métis people their own land. I'm just wondering what, in your view, constitutes a Métis nation and how will it affect these communities that are in my riding?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

That's a great question.

It's basically up to the Métis people, not me, to sort that out. There have been many court rulings. It is, again, an opportunity we're seeing, with Manitoba Métis coming to an agreement. I think there's real optimism around what the Métis nation is looking for in being able to determine their rights and a new political accord with Canada.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

How do they fit into your framework of the nation-to-nation discussions? Are they their own nation, or are they going to be dealing with the provinces on this kind of stuff?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

It's a good question.

If you speak to the president, Clem Chartier, he will tell you the Métis Nation of Canada is the only nation that's already a nation in nation-to-nation negotiations. The AFN and the ITK represent the rights holders, so it's a....

As always, there's politics in people, but it is an exciting time, I think, for the Métis in Canada.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Thank you.

One of the TRC recommendations was to repeal section 43 of the Criminal Code. Repealing this section would essentially criminalize parents who spank their children.

Although I sympathize with the symbolism of this request, I guess that removing this section is disrespectful to Canadians from a vast array of backgrounds, faiths, and cultural communities who believe that non-abusive punishment is an important parenting tool. In 1979 Sweden repealed a similar section, and that had the effect of putting 22,000 children into the care of the government, so it's an interesting situation.

Will you commit to ensuring that the rights of all Canadians, including indigenous peoples, will not be undermined with this purely symbolic gesture?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

People like Senator Hervieux-Payette have been fighting for this for a very long time. Certainly people who want this section repealed come into my office on a regular basis. The fact that it ended up in the TRC's calls to action was surprising to some, I think, but it was welcomed by many others.

As you know, this is something the Minister of Justice is looking into, but as a family physician, I have to say there is a way of doing this that explains that in our society we don't condone people hitting one another and then expect them not to go out and hit other people. I think it's also up to the judicial application. That means that if you're stopping a kid from walking into traffic, or all of the examples that are used as to why we can't do this, we can find a way through that honours the TRC's calls to action but also puts it in a practical way so that children can be kept safe.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

I thank you for your answer. I would just consider consulting other groups, including the indigenous peoples, on this issue as well.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

The Minister of Justice will be consulting broadly. I think the justice committee will end up welcoming a role there as well, as they consult all Canadians.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Do I have more time?

[The Chair, Liberal, Andy Fillmore]

I think you're out of time.

Thank you both.

Next up, for five minutes, is Gary Anandasangaree, please.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Madam Minister, thank you very much for your hard work and your long-term commitment to this issue.

It occurs to me that the child welfare system is not the appropriate authority to quote on assessing how we should be changing the laws. If anything, the recent case from the Canadian Human Rights Commission has outlined the complete failure of the child welfare system.

The TRC is fairly elaborate. It gives us 94 recommendations that we've committed to implementing. I know it's quite a grand commitment, but it's a very serious commitment.

How do we ensure we have a proper timeline for those recommendations to be implemented? In your view, what would be an appropriate timeline?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

Again, we're just thrilled about things that are happening already. The provinces and territories have really picked it up. The interim report of the TRC did warn people that these changes to the curriculum were coming. The Northwest Territories and Nunavut got on with it. At the TRC hearing in Alberta, the minister committed to it. We've been seeing this happening.

The universities have been moving on the recommendations that apply to them around indigenous courses, and we're thrilled that both Lakehead University and the University of Winnipeg have already moved on those recommendations. It's just great.

We have a little guide that I'd love to share with you in terms of our little framework in the department for the 94 calls to action, and whose actual job they are, and how they can get on with them. I'm happy to table that with the chair in both languages.

It's exciting, because it's about partnerships. It's not that we can legislate everything. It's a matter of welcoming partnerships that will help us with these challenges.

The first section there on child welfare is one that worries me every day. We have to fix this situation. Apprehending children and taking them away from their language and culture is just inhumane. We have to turn this situation around. From the jurisdictions to the first nations to everybody, we have to figure out another way to do that.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Equally important, I think, is that for the first time in history we have surpassed the point where 25% of our inmate population is indigenous. What, in your view, is the toughest recommendation to implement? What are some of those hurdles?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

I'm not sure the Pope's going to do what I want.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

This Pope may.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

Other than myself, I know there are lots of religious people who will be pressuring the Pope.

It's hard to say, “Pick one.” I don't think it's by accident that the Truth and Reconciliation Commission put the recommendations on children first. An example is the one around child abuse. The effect of child abuse in Canada is that it is responsible for addiction and it's responsible for the number of people in prison. Some of the numbers we see are at 80%. It's 80% of the people in penitentiaries and 80% of the people with addictions. This is huge.

I don't know what the levers are to stop this, but we have to do something, because hurt people hurt people. It's what we're hearing on missing and murdered indigenous women and girls. It's what we're hearing in terms of violence, domestic violence, all of these things, from coast to coast to coast in both indigenous and non-indigenous communities. We have to begin healing the effects of child abuse and therefore the sequelae of residential schools and understand the links between child abuse and PTSD and addictions and incarceration. To help all Canadians understand those links is a project we need for Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, Andy Fillmore]

Thank you, Minister.

The next questioning goes to David Yurdiga, please.

[David Yurdiga, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Thank you for being here today, Minister Bennett. I appreciate the opportunity to get your thoughts on a variety of subjects.

One of my biggest concerns and passions is food security and the cost of food in the north. Obviously I don't believe any child should go to bed hungry. It's a real concern of mine.

In the past, in 2012, you have called the nutrition north program a total failure and made suggestions that we go back to food mail, yet the government has committed to spending $40 million more on the program.

Have you changed your opinion of the program, or was it just a lack of funding?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

It's not working, so what I've been asked to do is at least include the communities that weren't included in the food mail program. There was a view that the food mail program wasn't working because a certain number of communities weren't included, so we're including those and then we're going to spend a year figuring out how to fix it.

What I've been hearing, particularly in the remote and northern communities and in the territories, is that access to country food is one of the real issues. People are not able to afford to be hunters anymore. There's the cost of gasoline, ammunition, boats and motors, and snow machine repairs. The hunters are despondent. They're no longer able to feed their families. As a result, I've been interested in looking at what some of the land claims and some of the harvester programs have been. In the meantime, we'll have to include these other communities as we go out and consult.

When I'm in Nunavut, people keep telling me “There's lots of fish, there's lots of fish.” There isn't a reason for people to be hungry, so if we're going to judge how this program's working based on hungry kids, we've got to figure out a different way of going about it. It's not by having cheaper sugar pops, even though that's not what the nutrition north program did, but fighting about what's on a list. We take diapers off the list, and then there's not enough money for other things.

We keep hearing the problems. Mainly we heard that northerners didn't feel that they'd been consulted, and that's where we have to start.

[David Yurdiga, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

You just mentioned that you're going to be expanding the program to be more inclusive of other communities that are currently not on the program. Are you changing the criteria so they qualify, or are you just going to be naming communities?