Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Sept. 28th, 2017

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Grand Chief, I know you mentioned earlier about a final agreement. Are you basically talking about the final release of all the claims? Is that the legal point that you're trying to finalize in this agreement? Once the agreement's finalized, are you basically extinguishing all of the future rights? Is that the approach you're taking on this?

[Grand Chief Constant Awashish]

There's a different formula, and I think the best for us is to preserve our rights, aboriginal title, and our land. We want general recognition of our rights. To paint a picture of this, let's say the government recognizes all our rights and our titles on the land, but we're going to put in an agreement all the rights you can exert on the territory provided by the treaty. All the rest that we didn't mention in the treaty, let's say we put that in a high cloud, in a box on the side.

Eventually, maybe, they're going to be reborn. Eventually, depending on the evolution of society, the evolution of the economic situation, or maybe an evolution.... I don't know what's going to happen in the future. I don't want to be all apocalyptic here, but I don't know.

When you look around, geopolitically, at what is going on around the world, sometimes it's kind of worrying for Canada, for me anyway. All empires fall. That's the story of mankind. We want to still be there. We are going to still be there. We are going to still practise our culture and our language.

We talked about language earlier, and I forgot to mention in the opening comments that the Atikamekw language is the most preserved first nation language in North America; 98% of our people speak our language, which is very fascinating. It should be looked at as a plus value for this country. People should share our pride in this fact. It's a gift to humanity. That's how people have to look at it. It's part of the old language that was spoken on the earth, and we are still speaking this language. Today, I want Canadians to share that pride, help us preserve our language, and develop this country together for a better future for our next generation.

When I say “a better future for our next generation”, I'm not talking only about my youth. I'm talking about your youth too. What are we going to give them? Are we going to give them the problem in the future, and we never assessed this problem? I think, for the best of us, when you look around the world, we have to come together, work together, and preserve what's good in Canada, preserve our land, and also ourselves.

I believe and I'm sure—and I will be there if I am still alive—if something happens, we will still be defending our land in the future, and we will be defending everybody who is on the land. If that's your kids, your grandkids, your great-great-grandkids, we will be there to defend them. That's how we think, as first nations. That's how we think, as the Atikamekw Nation. That's how you have to think, too. Invest in our youth, invest in our economic development, invest in our culture and language preservation, and invest in our pride. That's what Canada has to do, to invest in our pride. We will stand up and we will be strong beside you, and together we'll create a great country.

[The Chair, Liberal, MaryAnn Mihychuk]

MP McLeod, go ahead.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Thank you.

Ninety-eight per cent is incredibly impressive, and if it were in the area of our study, I would want to know how you do it. But I do have some questions, and maybe we can talk off-line about how your community has had such success, because for the language, 98% is amazing.

What I want to get into is your earlier remarks about the resource-sharing economic opportunities. Of course, everyone comes from different areas of our country, where different things are happening. I also appreciate the comments about how we need to be more regionally sensitive in terms of what we are doing and where we are going. I look at British Columba, for example. Some people are negotiating comprehensive treaties, and others have chosen not to at this time, but regardless, they are all negotiating when activity is happening on their land. For example, the provincial government now shares 37% royalties from a mine. This is on top of any equity investments or economic benefits of the company. This is royalty sharing.

In the province of Quebec, are there any of those sorts of relationships so that, as you are interim in your negotiations, your communities benefit from the resources?

[Grand Chief Constant Awashish]

Yes, of course. We are starting this approach too. As I said, our people really believe in the negotiations. We are doing it this way, negotiating. There is also self-propelling to sovereignty. We are working, talking to companies, exercising our rights on our lands, and slowly, we are getting our youth and our people ready to be more active, to be more proud, to be successful at school, and to have a better grip on our rights and also on our lands, and all the development that's going on in our lands.

Yes, there are some companies that we are sitting with and trying to get to an agreement—in French, they call it l'ERA—a beneficial agreement with those companies, and that's another approach. But in the state of law we are in, when I said earlier that we never surrendered, we never sold, and we never exchanged our lands, this is true.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

With the province, are there any royalty-sharing relationships?

[Grand Chief Constant Awashish]

We tried to develop this approach, but it's always been thrown.... They say, you are going to take care of it at the land claims table, the comprehensive claim.

It's always when we have a problem, they throw it to that table. You are going to take care of it at that table. It's always like that. It's always the easy exit for everybody, so they throw everything at the land claims negotiation table.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

In that case, British Columbia is very different from Quebec in terms of the resource development that happens.

[Grand Chief Constant Awashish]

But there's an opening. Can I just say a bad thing about them? There's an opening, but as I said, they put everything on the land claims negotiation table.

We say something else. We say that it's been 40 years. We don't want to wait another 20, 30, or 40 years. Let's address these issues right now. Let's sit down. Let's get to a bilateral agreement together on forestry, on mining, or any resources in the territory. This is the approach with the Government of Quebec, but it's the approach also, as you mentioned, with companies directly.

As I said, everything's always thrown to the negotiation table.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

In the area of your land claim, are there other towns and communities located there, or none?

[Grand Chief Constant Awashish]

Do you mean non-native towns?

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Yes.

[Grand Chief Constant Awashish]

Yes. There are many towns there.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

I know a number of communities that are negotiating that have said that it's very important to keep those relationships with the people they've lived side by side with for many years. Is that something that happens regularly in terms of your relationship with the communities? Is the federal government talking to the communities, telling them what's happening, what's going on?

[The Chair, Liberal, MaryAnn Mihychuk]

A short answer, please....

[Grand Chief Constant Awashish]

We work closely with the municipalities around us. I know there were some issues created in 2003 with the fusion of municipalities in Quebec, which created a lot of tension among the first nations and the municipalities. Still today there's an effect from this, but, yes, we as first nations always act in good faith and we want our youth to get a better life ahead. We always talk to other people, groups, other communities, municipalities, towns, townships, with hope in hand.

[The Chair, Liberal, MaryAnn Mihychuk]

Questioning for the final round is going to MP Saganash.

[Romeo Saganash, NDP, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I will continue in the same vein as my colleague Cathy McLeod.

At hearings held earlier this week in Vancouver and in Winnipeg, we heard that concluding an agreement with an aboriginal nation was beneficial for that nation's economy, but also for the province and the country. I think it is important to recognize that. You also highlighted this.

In the study we are conducting on the federal comprehensive claims policy, a number of witnesses have pointed out the need to build an adequate foundation in our relationship with aboriginals. A number of people also talked about the role the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples could play.

I quickly read your fairly recent declaration of sovereignty. I don't see anything in it that would be incompatible with the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.

Have you also thought about that?

[Grand Chief Constant Awashish]

If you are talking about potentially using the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, that option is definitely constantly discussed. We are trusting the current process implemented by the federal and provincial governments. That said, the fuse is becoming very short. June 2018 will be a turning point for the Atikamekw Nation.

Will we choose another approach at that point?

Our next approach will depend on what governments will show this year.

[Romeo Saganash, NDP, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

The fact that you trust a process that has not given you anything in 40 years shows extreme patience.

[Grand Chief Constant Awashish]

That is part of first nations' DNA. We are very patient, but as I said, not much time is left before the new generation starts pushing for a new approach to be adopted.

For a very long time, I advocated a different approach. In general assembly, members of our nation still believe in that option. June 2018 is when we will know where we are going. Of course, the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples is extraterritorial. We are familiar with the United Nations. It is an organization to which you subscribe or don't. Will countries want to interfere in what is happening in another country?

We see what is happening internationally, especially in North Korea. A number of countries are engaged in conflicts and don't really get along. The United Nations is an organization that relies on persuasion. Humanity has become aware of the importance of indigenous culture and of recognizing indigenous rights, as well as the fact that it constitutes humanity's heritage. That is the spirit of the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.

I am becoming a bit more sceptical, but I still believe that we will get somewhere soon. As I said, the next few months will be very important for the future.

[Romeo Saganash, NDP, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

One of the practices that was criticized almost unanimously in our meetings is that of giving loans for negotiations of comprehensive claims. Earlier, you said in English:

Why do we have to pay to negotiate?

That is a fundamental issue for me. That practice is often called into question, but people forget the other part of that equation, which consists in continuing to pay negotiators without a mandate and replacing them constantly with other negotiators, also without a mandate. Our committee must condemn that practice. While you have been negotiating, for 40 years, the wealth of your land continues to be taken away from you. I think that is an absolutely unacceptable situation.

You talked about the rule of law, which is so important in this matter. That is why I looked at your declaration again. When I asked you about this earlier, you said that you refused to use the moratorium option. However, we are talking about your land and your resources here.

We must give a great deal of thought to the jurisprudence of the Supreme Court on the issue, especially the Haida Nation case, which calls for reconciling our pre-existing sovereignty with assumed Crown sovereignty. If we really want to talk about reconciliation, we must build on that principle, right?

[Grand Chief Constant Awashish]

I completely agree with that.

Reconciliation must occur at all levels. It also includes recognizing what has been done to first nations throughout history, including assimilation and cultural extermination attempts. Just like you, I wonder why we should pay for the negotiation. That practice has been around for very long time.

I completely agree with regard to moratoriums. After a while, the moratorium ends. That has happened a number of times with respect to different issues. Governments' express will would really be needed in this case.

We have to understand that governments have an interest in resolving the issue with first nations. That will benefit first nations, but it will also benefit everyone else. This problem cannot be allowed to persist forever.

I think my time is up.

[The Chair, Liberal, MaryAnn Mihychuk]

Thank you very much.

We had extra room in this session, so we were being very liberal. Sorry about that, it's a little political joke.

I want to thank you for coming out. As I said before when encouraging you to submit a brief, please feel free to do so.

Congratulations on your great success story in the Atlantic region. Your people really are benefiting from the great work you're doing, although we hear your frustration on delivery.

We're going to take a short break and reconvene in about 15 minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, MaryAnn Mihychuk]

Welcome. We'll officially convene the meeting. The second panel is here. We're very pleased that you're here representing the Essipit Innu First Nation.

We're talking about land claims, comprehensive and specific. This committee has the ability to take evidence that you present, prepare a report from the analysts, and make recommendations, which we will then present to the Government of Canada. We look forward to hearing your challenges, your advice, and take that into consideration, and I will remind you that you're able to present briefs, supplementary materials, up to the final date of October 20.

We're going to start. You have 15 minutes to present, and then we go into a period of questions. Why don't you get started?