Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Oct. 23rd, 2017

[TJ Harvey, Liberal, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Mr. Smith.

[Duane Ningaqsiq Smith]

Under the Inuvialuit Final Agreement, we have processes established for overlapping issues. As well, within the final agreement, we have an agreement with the Gwich'in of Old Crow. Under our land claim, the Porcupine caribou management process was created. We worked together to implement that section of the Inuvialuit Final Agreement throughout the whole territory.

We have the Aboriginal Pipeline Group. All of the indigenous peoples got together to work towards the Mackenzie gas project. It went through all the environmental assessments and got its National Energy Board certificate, and then, unfortunately, gas prices crashed.

There have been examples out there, and we do have processes in place in regard to addressing overlapping issues for the benefit of everybody.

[TJ Harvey, Liberal, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Perfect.

Go ahead, Mr. Heron.

[Jake Heron]

Needless to say, the Métis on the south side probably have the biggest challenge of all. We don't have a claim yet, but we have our cousins, if you wish, the Akaitcho first nations and we also have the Dehcho, the K'atl'odeeche, and the Athabasca Denesuline, to deal with. We are actively looking and moving forward with endeavouring to do some overlaps. I think one of the key elements of this exercise for us is that the claim is not about economics, although we intend to benefit from it. It was really to enshrine our aboriginal rights.

Section 35 indicates that we have those rights; we have them inherent, asserted, or whatever you prefer. That forms the basis for moving forward and subsequently, once we all understand we're on the same basis and have equal rights before the law and the Constitution, it helps to set the framework for which we can begin to really move forward with overlap discussions.

[TJ Harvey, Liberal, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

I want to give the rest of my time to MP Anandasangaree.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Thank you.

I just want to pick up on the concept of a stepping stone approach. I think you had mentioned it with respect to comprehensive agreements. Could you just elaborate on what that actually would look like?

[Joseph Kochon]

Is it okay if I have legal counsel answer that question?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Sure, maybe we can just ask you to submit something to that effect, because we are out of time. I think we can have you submit that in writing at some point.

[The Chair, Liberal, MaryAnn Mihychuk]

The time for questioning has run out. We are now actually moving on to another questioner, and that is MP Cathy McLeod. Please submit the document so then it can be part of our documents and part of our report writing.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Thank you.

Certainly, the more we hear, the more it's clear that we have very complex challenges. Of course, Canada is such a huge country, and every region is so diverse and has its own areas that need resolution.

I just want to start with this. I know we have heard from the new government on the importance of the relationship. To your awareness, was there any consultation at all in terms of that oil and gas moratorium with any groups or the Northwest Territories legislature, any consultation before that was announced? I believe it was in New York.

[Duane Ningaqsiq Smith]

I guess I'm the only region that it affected for this part of the—

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

It affected the prosperity of the north, though.

[Duane Ningaqsiq Smith]

That's correct.

We received notice about two hours beforehand that it was going to be announced, and that was the extent of the consultation.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Thank you.

Certainly that, in my opinion, differed very dramatically from what has been said is going to happen in terms of these very important decisions that get made. I also understand there have been some pretty significant numbers put out there in terms of the creation of parks and protected areas, sea, oceans. You did indicate that the conversations in that regard have been reasonable in terms of creating that percentage and where it was going to be in the creation of parks.

Would that be fair to say?

[Duane Ningaqsiq Smith]

I also stated that we don't want to be used as the excuse for the federal government to meet its international obligations on an artificial quota, in my view, either on land-based or marine-based protection. Again, we'd rather work together on identifying potential sites and seeing the relevance of them, rather than just having it dropped on us because it's the Arctic, and it's large and it's empty. That's the mentality of the south. Let's just put an MPA there to meet our goals and objectives, which Bill C-55 is working towards, and then you have another court challenge.

That's why we pointed out the relationship between what Bill C-55 says and what the Clyde River ruling of the Supreme Court was. There needs to be a review of that to make sure you're not conflicting again, because it will be another court case, as I said.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

So that I can understand better, because every region is different, how are the natural resource revenue-sharing opportunities, the impact and benefit agreements.... Is every agreement separate, or are there some basic standards in terms of what you're doing and where you're going?

I look at this in relation to B.C. In an earlier panel they said we'd solved the overlap or we were doing a pretty good job with overlap. To be honest, I don't think we've done such a good job with overlap, because we have very few comprehensive claims that have been completed. Can you talk a little bit about how, what, and where things are going in terms of those natural resource development pieces?

I'll leave that open to anyone.

[Duane Ningaqsiq Smith]

I'll start, I guess, since the light is still on.

For the whole territory, I would think, there is no gas or oil development anymore. The price has dropped so much and the cost of conducting exploration or development within the north is so high.... Again, this territory is sitting on trillions and trillions of cubic feet of gas alone, leaving aside the oil. There has been a pipeline coming out of the territory since 1935, roughly, that has extracted oil to the south. Again, there is no activity. We're trying to stimulate natural gas development to serve our region and other areas.

In regard to devolution agreements, the GNWT has one with most of the indigenous organizations within the GNWT, and Jake has touched on that in regard to resource revenue sharing to the extent that this agreement does. Then there's also another section within that agreement that has not been implemented by the federal government. The GNWT, the lnuvialuit, and the federal government signed another agreement to start negotiations on the offshore. It has been roughly two and a half years and we're still waiting for those negotiations to begin.

[The Chair, Liberal, MaryAnn Mihychuk]

I'm sorry. We've run out of time.

I want to thank you very much for travelling here, for presenting, for bringing your views to the table. We'll use your comments and your wisdom to prepare the recommendations that we will submit to the federal government.

Chief Kochon.

[Chief Wilbert Kochon]

Can you give us more time next time? I wanted to talk more. There are a lot of things we didn't talk about.

[The Chair, Liberal, MaryAnn Mihychuk]

We'll work on that.

[Chief Wilbert Kochon]

Some of the things that Michael mentioned I wanted to discuss, but I can talk to him myself. He can mention it to the rest of the committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, MaryAnn Mihychuk]

Absolutely.

Cathy.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

If out of this conversation, even in the next few weeks, or out of this hearing you have something that you wish had been presented or that you think of, please don't hesitate to send a quick note or a briefing. It does become part of the full record.

[The Chair, Liberal, MaryAnn Mihychuk]

You'd have to be very quick about it. The official deadline was the 20th, but Cathy has given you an invitation so get those pens out and send us an email quickly. We have to write the report, and there's fairness.

Thank you very much for coming.

With the committee's permission...I need your guidance because I see that we have the national chief for the Dene Nation with us.

Welcome, Bill.

What we'd like to do is expand the next session so that there will be four presenters. We're going to start the next panel in four minutes, if we have agreement.

Okay. We'll suspend for about three or four minutes, and then we'll have four presenters.

[The Chair, Liberal, MaryAnn Mihychuk]

Let's get the meeting started.

We have a special session. Normally we don't have four presenters, but we're going to extend the length of time because one of the presenters from the first panel couldn't make it, Chief Erasmus, and we would like to hear from him, so there will be an extension of this session.

Welcome to this standing committee of Parliament. We are here to study land claims, both specific and comprehensive. We're interested in your views on modern treaties and self-government. It's a complicated study.

This is our final outward tour. We've gone to Vancouver; Winnipeg; Belleville, Ontario; and Quebec, and now we're here, compliments of MP Michael McLeod, who said we must come up and hear from you. We're so pleased for the invitation.

Let's get started. We're going to call on the national chief of the Dene Nation, Bill Erasmus, to start us off.

You have 10 minutes and then the other presenters will also speak. After that there will be rounds of questioning. I would ask MPs to be specific as to who they're addressing their question to.

Please, go ahead.