Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Nov. 2nd, 2017

[Patrick Tanguy]

Do you mean in terms of firefighting operations?

Well, in that case, the local authorities in municipalities as well as the province are the ones on the ground in firefighting operations, so—

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

I recognize that, but there were times when whole towns were being—

[Patrick Tanguy]

Of course, if the request for assistance had been targeting that kind of support, we would have had to work with Canadian Forces. We've seen in the past that there have been some cases where Canadian Forces were providing assistance of that nature.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Thank you.

I'll go to our new department.

I think it would be really good to get some clarity. Certainly, I witnessed what I thought was actually a reasonably well-coordinated response and a pretty welcoming evacuation centre. I do have to give a big shout-out to Kamloops, which opened up their powwow grounds and welcomed indigenous and non-indigenous people alike, and they fed them.

My sense was that the department struggled to deal with a community that worked well together. For Kamloops, the response was, “Well, we can reimburse you for this part that you gave to indigenous people, but the others are not our responsibility.” There were some real challenges for communities that actually worked well together and opened up their hearts and their opportunities to deal with the red tape of, “We only pay for this,” or “We only pay for that.”

Can you make any comments?

[Serge Beaudoin]

The comment I'll make is that the department does reimburse emergencies related to first nations on reserve, and that's up to 100% of reimbursement through our terms and conditions. It is extremely good that first nations communities are hosting other first nations, and that's one of the lessons learned—

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

This is not first nations, and that was the challenge. They recognized an emergency. They had hundreds of people who were brought in, and it didn't matter who they were. They fed them and provided them with showers and washrooms, but unless those they were helping were first nations, the response was, “Thank you. You did a great job, but you're out of pocket.”

[Serge Beaudoin]

On that, I was just explaining that if it had been first nations, then it would 100% reimbursed. If not, these are the types of services that would be eligible under the disaster financial assistance arrangements from Public Safety as a reimbursable cost. That is something that is eligible because they're hosting a community that is eligible. It just works through a different system for non-indigenous people.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

I guess we'll get an opportunity to find out if they managed to weave through that system to get to where they needed to be, then.

I was in Manitoba, and again my observations were that it was sort of reasonably welcoming, as difficult as the situation was. It looked like it was a very difficult situation at the evacuation centre in terms of the support that was being provided. I'm now hearing something I didn't understand before, which is that some places have these agreements with the provinces and territories.

You had a paragraph in which you mentioned that some do and some don't. Which ones do and which ones don't? Red Cross had a really important role to play where we were. They had the only role to play in Manitoba. Can you talk about that sort of feature of the response?

[Serge Beaudoin]

Absolutely. I would say that we have about three buckets of situations. We have five formal agreements. We have them with Yukon, P.E.I., Northwest Territories, British Columbia, and Alberta.

We have another bucket where provinces step up and support first nations regardless of whether there's a formal agreement in place. For instance, in Ontario, we're negotiating a formal agreement, but on the ground, it works. They will do what it takes through their operations centre to respond.

In other places, the third bucket is where there's not that kind of agreement with the province. An example is Manitoba. We've put in another mechanism through the Red Cross to provide those types of evacuation services, emergency preparedness, and other types of services.

[The Chair, Liberal, MaryAnn Mihychuk]

I'm sorry, but we'll have to move on to the next questioner, MP Anandasangaree.

I'm sorry, please forgive me. It is MP Jolibois.

[Georgina Jolibois, NDP, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

That's okay.

Good morning, and thank you. Masi cho.

I come from the province of Saskatchewan and represent Peter Ballantyne Cree Nation on the east side of the northern portion.

Can I ask questions related to Saskatchewan? If so, what does the provincial agreement look like with the Province of Saskatchewan?

[Serge Beaudoin]

Saskatchewan is one province where we do not yet have a formal agreement in place. We're in the process of having discussions with first nation leadership as well as the province to put something in place.

That being said, the Province of Saskatchewan does support the response and recovery related to events that occur on reserve. Although there's not a formal agreement in place, they try to imbed or work with first nations to make it as seamless as possible. There are improvements to be made there over time, and that's what we're seeking to do with the formal agreement that we want to put in place.

[Georgina Jolibois, NDP, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

There is a national working group that you spoke about in terms of addressing what went well and what didn't go well. Is there a similar process in place for the province of Saskatchewan with Peter Ballantyne Cree Nation, the Prince Albert Grand Council, the Province of Saskatchewan, and other stakeholders?

[Serge Beaudoin]

That one I could look into specifically. Typically, an emergency measures organization within a jurisdiction like a province would do an after action or a lessons learned event, but I can check specifically for Saskatchewan and get back to the committee on the process itself, if you wish.

[Georgina Jolibois, NDP, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

That would be very helpful.

My next question is regarding the Canadian Red Cross. My experience is in evacuating people at the local municipal level as well as assisting the chiefs and councils. In terms of indigenous knowledge and the indigenous way of living, are you familiar with the Canadian Red Cross and what kind of services they provide from the indigenous aspect?

[Serge Beaudoin]

When we looked at the options of a service provider to work with, one of the reasons we took the Red Cross was cultural sensitivity. They do this internationally and go into situations and have that cultural sensitivity and awareness, and where they don't have it, they build it. The Canadian Red Cross put in place a director responsible for indigenous emergency management to move that forward a little bit.

That being said, it may vary across the country as they implement new teams, train up their volunteers and whatnot, but we're finding that they do provide those services. In particular, in Manitoba they have built up a big team there, but as in any organization, there may be a bit of variability across the country on that.

[Georgina Jolibois, NDP, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

The next question will be related to the local fire management services. As they do in the provinces regarding regulations and legislation to assist the local fire departments, are there any similar regulations and rules set in place to assist the local band with their fire departments?

[Lyse Langevin, Director General, Community Infrastructure Branch, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

I'll take that question. Thank you very much.

First nations manage fire protection services on reserve. They're responsible for making their specific decisions and their funding decisions under the annual core funding that INAC provides to them. Having said that, we work closely with the Aboriginal Firefighters Association of Canada who put a report out a few years ago identifying key measures that could be done to improve fire protection on reserves. One of them is the implementation of an indigenous fire marshal. We are working toward doing that to help improve the situation of fire protection on reserves.

[Georgina Jolibois, NDP, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Still related to the key measures, what do you mean by the key measures? As well, you say INAC provides part of the core funding. Do we have an idea what amount we are talking about? I know it's hard across Canada, but per province, do we have an idea per local level?

[Lyse Langevin]

I have a general level that I can share with you today, and we could come back and give you the information per province.

INAC provides, as part of its A-base, approximately $26 million a year for fire protection across the country. In budget 2016, $250 million was provided for other infrastructure across the country. That includes roads, bridges, electrification, fire protection and connectivity. Of that, $20 million was used in 2016-17 for fire protection. It's in addition to what we provide yearly from our A-base funding. I don't have the number for 2017-18 as the year is not finished.

For the A-base funding, we do have a provincial number that I can provide to you.

[Georgina Jolibois, NDP, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

That would be very helpful.

Still on the local fire department, it sounds as if the onus is on the chief and council and the local leadership to provide effective services. I'm looking for improvements. Does INAC still assist with ways to improve the services at the local level?

[Lyse Langevin]

You are correct that the onus is at the local level. You're absolutely correct.

The study that the aboriginal firefighters did identified four major initiatives that should be followed. We've endorsed their recommendations. There should be the creation of an indigenous fire marshal service and the development of a national incident reporting system. If you don't have the data for what is causing the fire, it's hard to go and do the proper fire prevention. It's a little bit of a catch-22, and we are moving on that, implementing fire life safety and public education programs and defining and supporting national fire service training standards.

We are funding the Aboriginal Firefighters Association of Canada to work on that across the country with the first nations. They are very actively doing that. They have programs such as FireSmart, training of firefighters, and now moving forward on the creation of the indigenous fire marshal office.

[Georgina Jolibois, NDP, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, MaryAnn Mihychuk]

Now we're going to MP Gary Anandasangaree.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, panel, for joining us. I have two basic questions.

First, with respect to evacuation, what kind of challenges did you face during evacuation this summer? Were there any specific concerns that you think need to be addressed?

Second, were there consultations with indigenous communities before the evacuation took place? What kind of communication? Did people have a choice to leave? Did they have any input into leaving their communities? Did they have any choice as to where they were going?