Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on March 10th, 2020

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

I'm suggesting that relevance is an issue here, Mr. Chair. I do respectfully submit that this question could be deferred to next Thursday.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Ms. Ashton, go ahead.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Respectfully, I'm shocked that we would ask to have this discussion delayed when we know that the government isn't taking it seriously.

Let me connect it to the Wet'suwet'en as well. Indigenous people in this country have had enough of the way in which the federal government has ignored their needs, whether it be treaty land entitlement or land claims—and I include the north of 60 agreement that your government betrayed the Dene on. They've had enough of the way in which living conditions in their region have been ignored, so I'm shocked that I would be told that I should stay silent about a crisis we're starting to live right now.

My question for the government is what are you doing to take action to make sure that first nations are supported? Perhaps you could also reflect on the fact that you're an alternate member of a committee. What signal does that show to indigenous communities when the government doesn't even take indigenous affairs ministers seriously enough to have you as a full member of a committee dealing with a nationwide and global crisis?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

You have 30 seconds.

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

I can confirm with the member that I'm on the committee and participating fully. I'll leave it at that. We have a meeting today, and I will be updating members on the issues. I'd be prepared to update you on the issues with respect to our engagements in indigenous communities and our reaction and preparation for coronavirus, which is a very serious issue.

I would preface my following comment with the fact that I don't think that the introduction of UNDRIP and the work the government and the NDP did on it, fostered by and put forward by Romeo Saganash, is storytelling. I think it's very important. It's very important for Canadians to realize that.

With respect to coronavirus, indigenous communities are more vulnerable for a number of reasons: historic socio-economic gaps, overcrowding and lack of access to clean and safe drinking water. These are all issues that we as a government on a long-term basis—and on a short-term basis with respect to the long-term water advisories that we are committed to remove by March 2021.... There are also systemic issues with respect to cultural approaches with medical facilities and health care, and issues with access and remoteness. These are all factors that have contributed, for example, to the unacceptable rates of tuberculosis in those communities.

We have our experience from the H1N1 virus. I have a dedicated team that is working on surge capacity. I'd absolutely be more than glad to update this committee or anyone willing to engage with me on this issue. Foremost, it's to indigenous communities that we are striving to reach out to, and have already done, but we'll be increasing that capacity in the short term. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thanks, Minister.

We need to move to our five-minute round.

Mr. Vidal, you have the floor.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Ministers, for your time today.

I want to follow up a little bit on Mr. Schmale's comments.

Minister Bennett, title has primarily been dealt with through treaties, as you talked about. The Tsilhqot’in decision has set out the standards for proving that title exists. I think we would agree on that.

Title claims impact not only the first nations, but also affect the surrounding non-indigenous communities and overlapping first nations' claims. Treaties must be ratified by federal and provincial legislatures, and so to follow up on my colleague's question, not only do I think it's appropriate, but I think it's imperative that you bring this agreement before Parliament before you sign it.

I don't think you answered his question. Will that come before Parliament before it gets signed?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

Yes, I think what I said was that section 35 agreements that Canada and indigenous groups negotiate remain confidential until after the ratification process. With the Anishinabek education agreement, it then came before Parliament. We are very aware that these kinds of agreements, particularly where title is involved, need to come to this place.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

In all of your public responses to this so far, what I've heard is that once this agreement has gone through this two-week process, as you eloquently referred to today, you and Minister Fraser from B.C. will go back and sign it.

Therefore, where's Parliament in this process?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

As with a collective bargaining agreement or the type of agreements that Canada signs, I have a mandate to be able to sign agreements. This is about an agreement to work to implement.

As you know, the Supreme Court held title and recognized hereditary leadership. It's now our job to do the hard work of being able to implement and work through those things that you are quite rightfully raising in terms of neighbours and private property, insurance and roads, and all of those things. This is a very complex matter, and that's the hard work we're looking forward to doing with the Wet'suwet'en Nation and the Province of British Columbia, but also the municipalities of Smithers and Houston.

This is important work.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

What I'm hearing from you is that this is an agreement that we're going to keep working together, but you spoke in your comments about this being an agreement about title.

Are we talking about title, or are we just talking about agreeing to continue to work together?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

This is a proposed arrangement that would allow us to move on the important work of implementing the rights and titles of the Wet'suwet'en people.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Thank you. I'm going to move on.

Mr. Miller, I have a question for you.

In your departmental plan, you say:

Our work supports the self-determination of Indigenous peoples so that in the future, the services we currently offer are developed, governed, and delivered by Indigenous peoples.

Resource development is a great way for indigenous communities to create their own revenue and achieve this noble goal. As my colleague asked, I ask you, why is it that your government seems to only be speaking to those who oppose the economic development?

I would preface that additionally with both Minister Bennett's visit to B.C. but also the transcript I read of your eight-hour meeting with the Tyendinaga people. Again, it seems as though we're only talking to those people who oppose the project development, yet the project development is huge for the success of these communities.

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

I can't pick and choose who shows up at a barricade. I have to deal with the cards that are dealt to me and engage in that dialogue and figure out why these solidarity movements are popping up. You can only do that through conversations, some of which are difficult, and I have no choice but to respect the views that are communicated to me at that point in time. Whether I agree with them or not, it's very important to continue that dialogue and have a path and a game plan towards peaceful resolution.

Everyone wanted peaceful resolution, but that game plan and that step plan is very important, and that includes dialogue. We do engage. The whole point of my department is to close that socio-economic gap so that indigenous peoples have substantive equality with non-indigenous peoples. That, in and of itself, is a huge catalyst for economic growth. There are economic development portfolios in both my and Minister Bennett's departments.

We know that when self-determination is achieved, indigenous peoples are driving resource development in many communities. You need only look at Treaty 8. You need only look at the Cree in northern Quebec. Those projects are key to the development of our country, but that takes catching up the gap in education, health, infrastructure, emergency management, all those precursors that in fact you and I probably take for granted.

These are very important. We will engage with all actors, resource development actors included. I meet with them all the time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thank you. That's five minutes.

Mr. Van Koeverden.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much to both ministers for joining us today.

Before I start, I'd like to commend you and acknowledge your commitment to developing lasting trust, to being on the front lines and meeting with people, and to listening to people and ensuring that their voices are heard, not just in the media but in Parliament as well.

Like you, I am very concerned about some of the language being used to discuss this issue. It's grown to be quite inflammatory. I think, as elected officials, parliamentarians, we have a particular responsibility to be diplomatic with respect to these important issues. On Sunday, I met with about 70 indigenous youth at the Canada We Want conference just north of Toronto. I would submit, that while it was very emotional, their language and rhetoric remained respectful, diplomatic and constructive throughout that conversation, which was supposed to be for 30 minutes but ended up being for about two and a half hours. I think that's a commitment that many of our colleagues would be well served to emulate.

Without undermining the urgency of all of the issues involved, I was hoping that you could elaborate a bit on de-escalation as a priority, reducing the temperature to ensure that there is a peaceful, effective and legal solution that will result in good outcomes. Could you also elaborate, Minister Bennett, perhaps more importantly, on the reference you made to doing no harm?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

Thank you for that.

I think we are worried that situations like this just increase racism and people's ability to attack each another. That Saturday night in the hotel in Smithers, one of the elders was verbally abused. It just spoke to, really, what happens amongst neighbours, but also to the most vulnerable. To attack somebody who went to residential school, who has lived that shame of being indigenous, is unacceptable. I do worry, whether it's Senator Beyak or others across this country, that people seem to be getting away with saying things that are absolutely hurtful and harmful. It's really dangerous to the fabric of this country. We have so much to learn about thinking seven generations out; about asking, not telling, in leadership; about listening to wise women; about all of the things that were in place here before the settlers arrived. And then the Indian Act and residential schools made people feel ashamed.

I agree. It was interesting last night at the University of Toronto. I met this amazing young indigenous woman who talked to me about the Chandler-Lalonde report, about how communities that are self-governing end up with better health, education and economic outcomes. This is a scholarly and evidence-based approach now, but it is also about building this country, about nation building, from coast to coast to coast.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

You have another minute.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Thanks.

Minister Miller, you spoke about trust a lot throughout your speech today. I've recognized your hard work and commitment to having an open and honest dialogue throughout this process. I referenced your work, your commitment to language acquisition, your commitment to peace and dialogue and patience a number of times throughout my meeting on Sunday night. It was well recognized; there was a lot of nodding in the audience. These youth were very well informed.

I'd ask you to elaborate on how patience, diplomacy, a calm approach are serving the situation now. I would once again commend you for that work.

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

Thank you.

Let me add on to what Carolyn said. My greatest concern, when I heard from the leadership in Kahnawake, was about the 200 kids who study off-reserve and how they are being targeted. Our concern in all of this is the safety of all Canadians, and particularly those most vulnerable, but when you hear stories like that, it really brings home what this means and the need to achieve a peaceful resolution.

Building trust sometimes means being vulnerable and going on a playing field that isn't yours, exposing yourself. Nine hours of transcript for a minister is a significant amount of exposure; it's minimal compared to the vulnerabilities the people who accepted to meet me face. I feel safe around police forces; they don't. That insecurity was palpable in the room on many occasions. This is systemic, ongoing and documented. It isn't something that people just throw out there; it is documented in reports.

That trust has been broken for decades, so it isn't someone like me who is going to repair it or something like this government that will repair it simply in one year, with a bunch of programs that are historic in their investment quantum. It will take a long time to repair these bonds that have been broken, and probably more mistakes will be made. It's just something we have to be relentless about. It's about building relationships. In any community, even across this committee you build relationships and that builds a modicum of trust—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thank you, Minister. That's your time.

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

—and confidence. It allows you to move on. It's systemic. We can work at it as a country. I'm confident.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thank you.

Mr. Zimmer, you have five minutes.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Thank you, Minister. I appreciate that you went out to the Wet'suwet'en community. It's my neighbour to the west of my riding.

I share the concerns of my colleague Mr. Schmale. You talked about exploiting divisions as if it were somebody else other than what you were doing. You talked about being “open and honest”, I think, Minister Miller. That's what you said; you wanted these discussions to be that way.

Are you aware of who elects the elected chiefs and council of the Wet'suwet'en community?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

Am I aware...?