Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on March 22nd, 2021

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

When do you expect the national action plan on missing and murdered indigenous women and girls to be released?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

The National Family and Survivors Circle would like to see a simpler version of the calls for justice. This is necessary for the average person. They have a right to expect to live in safety.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thanks very much.

That brings us to our next round of questions with Rachel Blaney.

Rachel, go ahead for six minutes.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you so much, Chair.

Thank you to both of you, Ministers, and to your staff for being here today with us.

My first question is for Minister Vandal.

We are doing another study. I would hate to count how many studies we've done on food security in the north, but we're doing another one. Hopefully, this one will actually see some action in the future.

President Obed from ITK said, “The primary issue is the purpose of the program”, and I'm talking about nutrition north. If the purpose of the program is that it's a social program, with 100% of the money going to the people who need it, then we need a program that is completely transparent and accountable.

A point-of-sale rebate is a marketing tool, but it is not an effective mechanism in the way it is being used. Until we fix the systemic problems that leave the nutrition north program open to interpretation, I think people will continue to say it isn't working for them and they will demand a better nutrition north program.

We're hearing loud and clear from people—and all the testimony we've heard in the last two weeks has been very, very clear—that the program is still not working. People are still struggling to get appropriate nutrition, especially indigenous communities.

In the supplementary estimates, of course, you have announced that there are more resources, but I'm wondering if there is any practice or investment that is going to look at the program, assess it and maybe make it more of a social program that actually reflects the needs of the people in those communities.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

Thank you so much.

That's an important question, so thanks for asking it. I get a lot of questions and feedback about that program.

First of all, the whole issue of food insecurity is a lot more complex and multi-faceted than one program. Nutrition north, for those who don't know, helps make nutritious foods more affordable and accessible to residents who are isolated in northern communities if they lack year-round road, rail or marine access.

For several years the government has championed the nutrition north program. There is a nutrition north advisory committee, which meets regularly to discuss these issues and discuss how the program could be made into a better program. On its own, I think it's a valuable program that subsidizes nutritious food—

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

I'm sorry to interrupt you, Minister.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

Okay.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

It's not a social program. The committee is well aware of the program. As I said, we're doing a study on it, so we've heard a lot.

I think the particular challenge is that it's still point-of-sale and it doesn't put the power into the hands of people who are purchasing. It puts the power into the hands of people who are selling. It's not a social program. It's not giving to the people who have the least, so there's definitely a concern there.

I'm just wondering if you will be reviewing your program at all. Are there any funds being dedicated to meaningfully review this program so that it works more beneficially?

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

Absolutely. We are constantly reviewing the programs we roll out. I've referenced the nutrition north advisory committee. That is always reviewing what we're doing. I think it's important to note that the—

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Okay, but there's no commitment to overhaul the program at all.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

—the Auditor General, as well, is reviewing nutrition north. There are improvements. The harvesters support grant is something that came out of the co-development between the advisory committee, ITK and the people who operate nutrition north.

As you know, the harvesters support program is creative. It's a subsidy for Inuit nations and indigenous nations to get back on the land and to have access to more country food, which has long been called for. There's room for improvements—

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

I think the other challenge, Minister, as you well know, is the impact that climate change is having, and how people want to be out there in the country but are not able to.

Thank you so much for answering that.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

Absolutely.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

I want to move to Minister Bennett now.

I appreciate the conversation earlier about Bill C-15. I very much encourage you to talk to your government and to make sure we actually see it being debated in the House. We saw what happened in the last Parliament. I certainly don't want to see that happen again. It needs to be debated. I appreciate that the committee is doing the prestudy, but if we're not debating it in the House, the process isn't happening so I encourage you to do that.

One of the questions I have for you around reconciliation is on the issue—and you and I have talked about this, Carolyn—of enforcement. We heard in the last study we did about the impacts of COVID-19 on indigenous communities that one of the biggest challenges was their inability to enforce the band bylaws. They weren't able to call somebody when people were gathering in bigger groups. We've heard again and again in different studies that enforcement continues to be a challenge. Local police or the RCMP don't know how to follow through on certain things. There seems to be a disconnect between the governance structures and the local law enforcement, and that's continuing to bring up big issues.

I'm just wondering if there's any commitment from your government to help bridge that gap so that we can see more reconciliation.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

Thanks so much.

As you know, Minister Blair and Minister Miller are working on making indigenous policing an essential service. In nations like Kwanlin Dün, with Chief Doris Bill and having the four peace officers, the calls to the RCMP have dropped by 30% or 40%. These models of autonomy in community safety are where I think we want to be very supportive.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thanks very much, Minister.

We go to a five-minute question with Mr. Melillo.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Minister Vandal, I have a Globe and Mail article in front of me from a couple of weeks ago and obviously I won't read the whole thing, but the headline is “Top defence official says China is a threat to Canadian Arctic”. It goes on to talk about China's push for natural resources and that they have been turning their attention to the Northwest Passage for some time.

Minister, we know there is depleting defence infrastructure in the north and that many individuals and organizations have been raising concerns about the Chinese Communist Party for years. Why has there been such little urgency from your government in securing our Arctic sovereignty?

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

I certainly wouldn't agree with that statement. I agree with the reality of climate change, and climate change is occurring three times faster in the north than it is in the south. That's a very important factor. I think that's reality and we are a government that acknowledges reality.

First of all, I don't agree with the premise of your question. Our government is taking a whole-of-government approach to issues of the north because they are so very important. Whether it's northern affairs or foreign affairs or national defence, we are actively engaged and consulting with Inuit nations that live in the north, and we are taking a whole-of-government approach to the many important issues that face the north. We are working through the Arctic and northern policy framework to align all the territories, the indigenous nations and the investments that are occurring in the north.

You're right. Those issues are so very important, whether it's the Chinese, the Russians or other Arctic nations. We're actively engaged as well with the Arctic Council who are talking about all of these important issues.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Thank you. I appreciate that. I do have limited time, as you know, so I'd like to get to some other issues as well.

I would like to pick up on the issue of food security. It seems that a recurring theme with this government is that you increase funding and you spend a lot of money, but there are worse outcomes for Canadians. I think the nutrition north Canada program is a pretty solid example of that. We've seen funding continue to increase under this government. However, according to Library of Parliament research, rates of food insecurity across the north have continued to increase.

With that in mind, considering you're spending more and getting worse results when it comes to food security, would you agree that the current policies of this government have failed to address food insecurity?

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

I absolutely disagree with that. First of all, nutrition north is an important program, but I think the premise that we're going to solve all the food insecurity issues in Canada and in the north through one program is faulty. Nutrition north has been around for 11 or 12 years now. We've invested in it because I think it's a good program. Is there room for improvement? Absolutely.

We are working with the nutrition north advisory council, with ITK and other indigenous nations and territories to try to expand on it. I think it was absolutely necessary that we spend an extra $25 million during the pandemic to make sure that the people who are suffering from food insecurity have more resources. I'm certainly not going to apologize for spending more money on nutrition north during COVID-19. That was something that was absolutely necessary. It had to be done.

There's room for improvement, and we're going to work with the advisory council.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Thank you.

Minister, how do you measure the success of the nutrition north program? You're saying you disagree with my premise. You believe things are going well, and it's a success. Food insecurity is rising. That's a fact. That's not me telling you this; it's the Library of Parliament research.

How would you measure the success of the nutrition north program?

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

I think nutrition north is a part of the solution. It's certainly not the entire solution. We have to look at other Government of Canada initiatives such as what Agriculture is doing. CanNor, I understand, are—

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

I appreciate that, Minister. Is there a way that you measure the success of the nutrition north program specifically?

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

We have to work with other territorial governments and with indigenous nations to make sure the money in nutrition north is going where it's supposed to, that we're getting the best bang for the dollar, and I think we have to keep improving by working with the nutrition north Canada advisory council. Programs—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thank you. We're out of time.

We move to Brenda Shanahan.

Welcome to the committee, Brenda. You have five minutes.