Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on May 6th, 2021

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Thank you, Vice-President Blake. Having worked a lot on the sports side, both on the indigenous sports side and with Sport Canada, I can reiterate how competitive the application process is between sports. I see some similarities there. I would also agree that, between 2005 and 2015, investments in various community-serving programs were very limited in this country.

Chief Rempel.

[Chief Nicole Rempel]

Thank you.

This is a complicated question for me because we don't receive funding, as far as I know, for these matters. We rely on the RCMP to deal with enforcement and justice, and unfortunately, with the province not doing tripartite agreements, it's very difficult for me to really answer this question.

When we have an issue, we call the RCMP and we are told consistently that they cannot deal with that, that it's not a real issue. Tripartite agreements are things that should be looked at within the Province of British Columbia to assist us in being able to address the concerns we are having. As well, I would recommend cultural sensitivity training for all RCMP officers, and again, preventative programs and such, which Chief Blake also mentioned.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Thank you. I was quite frankly unaware that your community might be ineligible for some of these funding programs and opportunities.

What are some methods by which we might consider expanding eligibility to include your community?

[Chief Nicole Rempel]

I'm not sure what the eligibility requirements are at this point. I've never actually heard of any of these programs, so it's new to me.

I've been in this role since 2017, dealing with a lot of issues on reserve and not getting a lot of help. I'm looking forward to talking more about the FNPP and tripartite agreements to see where we can get. However, we have asked for these programs before and been told no.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

With an investment of over $800 million over the next five years, I sincerely hope that your community will be included and that we can work together to ensure that the eligibility is there.

Mr. Chair, I cede my time to you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thanks very much, Mr. van Koeverden.

Madame Bérubé, please go ahead.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My thanks to the witnesses for joining us today.

Your testimony and the questions we ask shed light on the subject for us.

My question is for Mr. Blake.

According to what you were saying earlier, you are underfunded. I would like to know how the new legislative and financial framework will be able to help with the security and well-being of First Nations communities.

[Chief Keith Blake]

Again, it's difficult for me to project that in not knowing what framework is going to be involved. We hope that what it does is increase our funding levels to longer-term opportunities.

Just for perspective purposes, first nation police services are averaging about 25% to 30% less funding than our mainstream competitors across the country. It depends on the region you're in as to those funding levels, but that would be approximately what we see as a funding gap that's there. I do hope, once again, that the monies that are being considered are being done through the lens of what support can be provided to our communities.

Chief Rempel is absolutely correct in saying they need to lift the moratorium on this opportunity for communities to have a voice and a say in the police service they wish to have representing and providing public safety to their communities.

I would love to see that opportunity arise for more communities. I can tell you as a chief of police here in Alberta, I receive phone calls weekly from communities asking me, how do we do this? I wish I had an answer and I wish there was an opportunity for them to look and to actually move forward in their own self-administered police service.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Did you take part in the process?

[Chief Keith Blake]

Again, the process—from my understanding, if that was the question—relies on the provincial government of jurisdiction. Of course, that is the Province of Alberta here, and so on across the country. It would require them, because they're the ones who have the purview of policing within the province, and then it requires the support of the federal government additionally.

The process is there. Unfortunately, it's a cumbersome process and you really need to get all the partners at the table, which in COVID-19 times is even more difficult. It's not a simple process, but it is certainly something that I hope this money that's projected will go into, because it's needed, necessary, and the communities very much want to have that process available to them.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Could you tell me about the training you provide for the members of your First Nations police service?

How would you compare it with the training that non-Indigenous police services receive?

[Chief Keith Blake]

Absolutely.

Again, I'll speak on the Tsuut'ina experience, because provincially that will change throughout the country. We have to follow all the legislative requirements that every police service in Alberta does, so we are no different. Our training needs to be at certain levels. We previously would send our officers to Depot, the RCMP training academy, but what we now have is an agreement with the Calgary Police Service whereby our officers will attend their Crowfoot training centre for the six-month duration. They can continue to live here on the nation and travel to and from the training academy in Calgary. It also involves an ongoing training program that we have here.

We have the same qualifications and recertifications. All the things we do are the same as every other service. We have the same accreditation; we have the same authorities as other police services, and we're proud of that. We don't want to be less than; we want to be equal to.

When it comes to the ongoing training, I'm very proud to say that our service also looks to the leaders within the culturally appropriate training. Again, we don't like looking at the culture training; that's a very sterile term. We look at the reframing of our relationships with indigenous peoples. We offer this training to all police services within the provinces, and in fact the country. We held one two weeks ago, for three days. We had the global indigenous model of the situation that Canada has faced. Then we move it down to each region of the country. We also have the lived experiences from people who have suffered as a result of the justice system, and all that we know of. We speak to elders. It's a three-day program, and it's holistic and fulsome.

Again, we host that training every two to three months, and we invite people across the country, law enforcement officials from everywhere, to take that on with us. That's an essential need, and it's something that's missing, I think, in many jurisdictions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

You have half a minute.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Has the pandemic led to any recruiting problems?

[Chief Keith Blake]

I think it has.... The way in which we engage with our possible candidates has been more virtual. Again, it hasn't diminished the interest in policing. As I said, one of the challenges we face is that there's a disparity in the service that first nation policing receives, comparatively.

Again, we don't want to be a feeder system for other police services, whereby we get them trained, and they're great, and we get them engaged, only for them to go somewhere else. Again, that very much needs some support from our funding partners to [Technical difficulty—Editor].

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

I'm sorry, we've frozen at that point. Perhaps the technology will improve as we move on to our next questioner.

Rachel Blaney, you have six minutes.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

I want to thank both of the witnesses for being here today.

I would like to start with you, Ms. Rempel. First of all, thank you so much for being here with us this morning.

The first thing I will say is, on the recommendations you talked about, please feel free to send those to the clerk, and we'll make sure they're included in the testimony.

The first question I have is around the land code.

It seemed to me from your presentation that when you spoke about that, it was a progressive process of moving toward self-governance. You moved out of something where the RCMP could come in and enforce; you moved to something that was promoted by the federal government, and now you're in a position where you can't enforce it. I just want to make sure I had that right.

[Chief Nicole Rempel]

Yes, that's correct.

I actually developed our land code law prior to being elected as chief. The big selling feature to members who are voting on whether or not to ratify a land code is that we have the ability to create our own laws, and they will be recognized in the courts and enforced by the RCMP. That's basically what the FNLM tells you. We go into this, telling our members that this is a great thing, and then when we get to the reality of it we find that, yes, we can create the laws, but we can't get the enforcement; we can't get the recognition in the courts without going through a costly process, like K'ómoks had to do.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

It was an expensive court case, and the representative from Indigenous Services Canada earlier today, it his presentation, called it a success. I'm just wondering if you would describe it as a success. Did this result in any ability of the RCMP to be able to come onto your nation and enforce this bylaw?

[Chief Nicole Rempel]

It's actually a law and not a bylaw. That's an important distinction, for sure.

I'm sorry. What was the question again?

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Was it a success, and has the court case made it possible for the RCMP to come and enforce your law?

[Chief Nicole Rempel]

Sadly, no. I would call it a success, absolutely. It is a precedent-setting case across Canada. I've been asked to speak all over Canada about this case. However, I'm facing this issue, literally today, with another trespass issue, and I don't have the confidence that the RCMP will be there to assist in the enforcement of our notice of trespass. Even though the previous orders and decision were that, ultimately, it needed to be enforced by the RCMP, I just don't feel confident that this is going to happen today.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

After this court case, did anyone from the federal government, after seeing this success, reach out and talk about how they could support creating solutions for your nation in terms of the enforcement of your laws?

[Chief Nicole Rempel]

No. I've been asked to speak by the Department of Justice in Ottawa, and I've done that with the lawyer several times, doing presentations on that case, but nobody has reached out to see how we could fix it, so today, when I have to go back up there to see if these trespassers have now left, there are no solutions in sight.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Was there any mechanism for you and your nation to recoup any of the costs to the nation to take on this really important court case?