Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on June 17th, 2021

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

You also talked about the consequences of the COVID‑19 pandemic. Can you tell us more about those?

[Coralee McGuire-Cyrette]

Yes, during COVID-19 not every home was safe to be in, if you had a home. The level of violence increased against indigenous women and girls, and the level of violence in exploiting children and youth also increased during this time. The level of community safety response across Canada wasn't there. There is no safety plan for indigenous women and girls comprehensively across Canada. That's really where we're able to see in the pandemic, for instance, that drug trafficking of indigenous women increased. Because people didn't have access to the usual types of drugs that they use, you've seen an increase in overdoses and increases in deaths due to that.

Who has suffered as a result of that? It is the women and children, those currently being exploited, as well as those being recruited, especially online. When you're looking at online childhood exploitation, everybody's online during this pandemic. We're looking at increasing high-speed Internet to our indigenous communities. We need to build in safety protocols to ensure that, in regard to what they currently don't have access to and they're going to, we protect the children in those communities. We need to make sure that the cyber-services are protecting children.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

My question is for Ms. Smiley, from Concordia University.

You are doing your Ph.D. on violence against women and you created a platform. Can you tell us more about that?

[Cherry Smiley]

Yes, I'm just about finished my doctorate, so hopefully I'll be a doctor in the next couple of months, but the platform I founded was actually a response to my experiences in university, coming from an anti-violent frontline worker background, being involved in feminism for the last, I don't know, 15 years and realizing that, in universities, there more places to talk about all kinds of theories and intellectual exercises but fewer places to talk about the material conditions of women's lives.

I created this platform as a way to teach, basically, radical feminist theory so that we can learn from all that knowledge that we've created and we can build on it. We can reject it or we can decide that it's great. We can decide that we like this part and not that part, but we can actually learn that theory before we dismiss it as being irrelevant.

I think there's a lot of really good stuff in there that we can build on, as well as do research on issues of male violence related to indigenous women and to make sure that this research is looking specifically at male violence against indigenous women and girls. Of course, there are other types of violence, but this type of violence is incredibly....

Globally, it's everywhere. It's systemic, but it also has particular histories for indigenous women in Canada. Because of those particular histories, there are particular solutions that we need to be looking at. It's very much keeping the focus on this type of violence and going from there.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thanks, Ms. Smiley.

Your cat is providing a release from tension. It looks so happy there behind you.

[Cherry Smiley]

Yes, he's pretty chill.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

We'll go now to Rachel Blaney.

Rachel, you have six minutes.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to all our witnesses today.

Ms. Skye, I'd like to come to you with my first question. You talked about this in your introduction to us, but could you be more specific about what makes indigenous women and girls more vulnerable to violence? How do those responses impact them and the communities around them?

[Courtney Skye]

Thank you for the question.

It's really important that we highlight the specific need to address the specific root causes of violence and colonial violence that indigenous women experience. If you look to some of the reports that have been developed around things like the homicide report that StatsCan produces, and you see a comparative study between aboriginal and non-aboriginal identified women within that study, you see, since 1980, a decrease in the overall number of women who have been killed, while the rate of violence against indigenous women has remained consistent across those years, and as a result, indigenous women represent an increased proportion of the victims.

That type of analysis or that type of information being made available really demonstrates that indigenous women experience different causes of violence and that the interventions that have been developed through feminist theory, through typical responses, haven't actually reached these populations, haven't supported them in the way that they need to be supported and haven't developed the same kind of access to services and supports that indigenous women require.

There are, of course, underlying human rights issues that underpin that. I appreciate that there is a need for a special response from government especially, to consider all the different populations that are impacted and all the different realities of people, to draw out strong policy responses that address, as the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples says, the need for special measures in certain circumstances. However, we also have to remember that there's a broad experience related to this issue that needs to be addressed. Any type of widespread legislation or national legislation has to consider and be respectful of many different experiences.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

I guess what we heard from other testimony is that there are challenges. Like what you just said, the services aren't quite reaching these communities, so what is the block to that? I'm wondering if you could also talk about the issues that exist between provinces and territories regarding interjurisdictional issues and how those supports might be fragmented for a trafficked person.

[Courtney Skye]

Yes, there are real service issues but also legal issues within the Canadian legal structure. Depending on where you live in Canada, different laws apply to you. There's an inherent unjustness in the experiences of Canadians where there are different legal frameworks and different legal recourses available to people, which are different province to province and city to city. That is a product of colonialism. What it also does is it creates a patchwork of services and service access, catchment areas and things like that, which create gaps. Also, there are disproportionate or inappropriate responses to people who may move or just have a need to have regular services and a base level of service from their government.

What happens is that we have certain cities, certain places, that do have more support than others and gaps in other parts of the country. This is why I was so interested in drawing responses or policy knowledge from other parts of the world, because there are jurisdictional issues and border issues that impact programming, laws and services in Canada.

I think we should be looking towards, when we're talking about national frameworks or federal frameworks, this understanding that there are root causes that need to be addressed. If we're concerned about vulnerabilities that result in exploitation, then we should be looking to things like guaranteed basic income, basic health services, a national dental care plan, accessible education and things that are going to make it systemically easier for people to access support and not be put in a situation where there's no other option for them but to submit to exploitation, if that's a concern of this committee.

We also need to have a really strong human-rights framework that upholds people's laws and case law around the right to sell sex.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

This is such a complex issue, and I really appreciate the part you're talking about in terms of basic human rights, but I feel like a lot of Canadians don't understand what people mean when they say indigenous people need basic human rights.

I'm just wondering if you could say what that means for you, Ms. Skye.

[Courtney Skye]

For the past year, I've been supporting the Haudenosaunee Confederacy chiefs council, which is the inherent governance structure of the Haudenosaunee people. We look to our laws, our creation stories and the things that make us distinct, and we look towards how our laws set down governance structures.

I look to this federal government, and they have promised a nation-to-nation relationship yet have almost entirely ignored our traditional governance structure the entire time they've been developing laws and policies.

We look towards what it means to have human rights. It means to live under our own laws, our own jurisdictions and our own cultural practices. Without having that kind of respect for what indigenous nations bring to the symphony that is humanity, we're not going to address the governance issues, the structures and the systemic issues that create vulnerability, that create disunity and that create the lack of social cohesion that exists in indigenous communities.

There are really high-level, broad philosophical questions that then begin to impact people's lives on a day-to-day basis, where indigenous women are denied their basic rights and human dignity. This is especially true for me, because I come from a matriarchal culture where our clan mothers, who are the stewards of our land, are continually denied their right to exercise our laws and governance in Canada.

Those are the kinds of human rights we're talking about here. We've fundamentally failed to entrench that type of true nation-to-nation relationship in policy and law, and unless that's going to be addressed, we're going to continue to see indigenous communities that don't have, or are denied, the ability to participate freely in our modern society.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thanks very much.

We're going now to a five-minute round of questioning. We have Mr. Melillo, Mr. Battiste, Madame Bérubé, Ms. Blaney, Mr. Schmale and Adam van Koeverden.

Eric Melillo, would you please go ahead for five minutes?

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to say thank you to all of our witnesses who have joined us today and who already have given us so much to think about. I appreciate how honest and open everyone has been in talking about such an important and difficult issue—and the many issues, I should say, around this.

I'll start my questions with you, Ms. McGuire-Cyrette. You mentioned the missing and murdered indigenous women and girls action plan in your opening remarks. I'm from the riding of Kenora, just beside Thunder Bay, and unfortunately this is an issue that is deeply personal for a lot of people in my riding. I don't have the exact figures in front of me, but I have previously cited in the House and in other work that somewhere near half of the identified cases over the past eight years were in the Kenora region alone. It's a very important issue to many in my riding.

You mentioned, if I'm not mistaken, that in your view the action plan seemed to miss some key recommendations and missed the mark a bit. I know that you were pressed for time and weren't able to go into a lot of detail, so if you're able to, I'd appreciate it if you could expand on some of your thoughts on that.

[Coralee McGuire-Cyrette]

Yes, definitely. Thank you.

We were looking for the national action plan to speak to indigenous women's safety. That's really what we're speaking about here. There is no investment in indigenous women's safety here in Canada—very limited.

When you're looking at the interconnection between human trafficking and missing and murdered indigenous women and girls, the data tells you that for a large percentage of missing persons cases there's a high degree of probability that they could be trafficking cases. When you're looking at missing children and youth and you're looking at the interconnection between child welfare, missing and murdered indigenous women and girls and human trafficking, there is an intersectionality that goes on there.

What we were looking for from the national inquiry and the national action plan was that data that I believe Courtney spoke to around.... There are the homicide reports. We know for the coroners' reports, for instance, that they've given us their knowledge and recommendations around the fact that, I believe, it was that approximately half of the cases were domestic. The piece with that, which is really important to note, is that those were preventable deaths by having services and programs and having safety plans.

What we were looking for was really to tell the story around “how did the woman die and who killed her?”, that one part of the story, in order to have stronger policies to make sure that it doesn't happen again. The same thing is happening with human trafficking of indigenous women and girls. The root causes go back to colonization. Here in Canada, we sold indigenous children. The selling of indigenous people has a history of colonization here, and it has continued on to today into what we now call human trafficking.

That's part of the issue that we're really looking at. There are two major components where a high level of healing is needed. Indigenous women-specific healing is needed because, as Ms. Smiley spoke to, we're talking about indigenous-specific issues. When we focus on everyone, we focus on no one. When we're talking about safety issues like human trafficking and the missing and murdered, indigenous women's experience in those issues is very unique and, therefore, we need unique solutions.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Thank you very much for that.

I also want to pick up a bit on a similar topic. You've already mentioned in your conversation with Marcus some of the transportation gaps in the north. Many of the communities in my riding are remote communities that are serviced by Thunder Bay, Sioux Lookout or Winnipeg, and many indigenous people, and many indigenous women specifically, of course, have to leave for basic medical care, for job opportunities, for school and for a number of things. Obviously, that puts them in a more vulnerable situation.

I'm not sure how much time you'll have to respond, but if you can talk a bit more about that as well, I'd appreciate it.

[Coralee McGuire-Cyrette]

Yes. Thank you.

Something we learned from the national inquiry, from survivors, was for example, when you're looking at the Highway of Tears, when you're looking at Barbara Kentner here locally in Thunder Bay, what it's telling us is that it's not safe to be an indigenous women walking. It's telling us about the lack of safety. With transportation and the Greyhound system, those issues there.... There are no safe systems for transportation across Canada. We need to look at how we are going to address that so that we have safe transportation. That's something that is concrete that we can address. When you are looking at Kenora and that district, what's the safe transportation to get to and from larger centres for medical appointments, for instance? It's not there. It doesn't exist—never mind getting across Canada.

When you're looking at having to hitchhike or at having to be trafficked in order to get to a medical appointment, that's just not acceptable. That's part of that human right to access basic services. We need infrastructure. Safe transportation will address violence against indigenous women.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thanks very much for the reply.

Mr. Battiste, would you please go ahead for five minutes?

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Yes.

I'd like to thank the witnesses for their testimony.

I'm coming to you from the Eskasoni reserve, a Mi'kmaq community. We have a community of about 5,000.

I don't want to paint all situations with the same brush because I know it varies, but one of the thoughts and one of the things that is noticed by indigenous leadership is that there is a lot of intergenerational trauma that exists currently in our communities from residential schools. This often leads to bad situations at home, and that often leads to people fleeing their home situations. Often, addictions are seen as the main cause of people getting into positions where sexual exploitation is possible.

I know there's more to the story, but is addiction too commonly used as the reason for sexual exploitation? Tell me a little bit about how the basic income guarantee would deter that if addictions are a problem.

Also—just because I know I may only get one question—with regard to funding autonomous women's organizations, which organizations are we looking at funding? Should we be funding the national women's organizations? Are we looking at funding the French centres or the rural support? In my community, we have the Jane Paul Indigenous Women's Resource Centre, which is set up in an urban location. What is the best, most efficient use of the money—the $2.2 billion—that we're putting towards missing and murdered indigenous women?

I want to start off with Ms. Smiley and then go to Ms. Skye, if I can.

[Cherry Smiley]

It's an important point you're making about these kinds of connections between addictions and sexual exploitation. What happens a lot is that women are shamed and blamed in both of those circumstances. Engaging in addictions, perhaps as a coping mechanism; maybe because they started smoking crack when they were 10, because it's very normalized and they've grown up around it; drug dealing—these types of things are happening. It is very tied to sexual exploitation so it is true that some women turn to prostitution, of course, because they're in this cycle of addiction. It's also true—I think Cora mentioned earlier—that drugs are often used as a way to placate women, so the pimp will get her addicted to heroin or whatever so that it's easier to control her and make her continue in prostitution.

Women are blamed and shamed for their prostitution, and they're blamed and shamed for their addictions. That's where the connection lies.

When we're talking about services, harm reduction services have a place, of course, but what we see now is that you can go to a safe injection site and stick a needle in your arm in 10 minutes, but you have to wait two or three weeks to go to detox. I think it's so incredibly important that we actually have these services available so that people have what they need when they need it, and that these services are women only. We've heard lots of stories of women actually being targeted by men when they're in detox or recovery houses and being targeted again there for sexual exploitation.

In terms of the organizations that need to be funded, I really think autonomous women's organizations are so important. When you're part of a larger organization that's essentially male-dominated, there's value there for sure, but you are controlled in some ways. There is less ability to speak out on, for example, issues of #MeToo, like Cora was saying.

It's really important that these organizations are autonomous women's organizations. You could do that nationally, regionally, provincially. I think there's a lot of really amazing women doing a lot of really amazing work. The more we have, the more discussions we can have and the better solutions we can come up with.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thanks.

Mr. Battiste, that's your time, but I know you have another segment coming up shortly, so perhaps Ms. McGuire-Cyrette can respond at a later time.

To keep our cycle of questions in order, we'll go to Madame Bérubé now for two and a half minutes.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is for Ms. McGuire‑Cyrette.

You talked about the relationship with child welfare. Do you know whether child welfare agencies have taken steps to tighten up requirements, to prevent indigenous children in the system from being recruited into the sex industry?

[Coralee McGuire-Cyrette]

That's due to a current gap in policy right now in the child welfare legislation, which is typically about looking at the parents, actually looking at the mother specifically, so that's a discriminatory policy. I won't be able to touch on that too much here today—how the files are opened on the mother regardless of who victimizes the child—but here in Ontario, we did recently get some new legislation that looks at tightening up those restrictions and being able to charge perpetrators under the Child and Family Services Act.

The reason that is so critical and important is that then you already have an act that's there to protect and you can charge perpetrators very easily through the system and then the child welfare system is taking care of it. You're not having to rely on children to do testimony and to go through courts of law in order to prove the violence that's happened to them.

Here is an opportunity for us to really look at what child welfare reform really looks like, and a missing component that never really gets brought up is mothers, mothers and parents and fathers and the role there. We're always talking about the jurisdiction over children, yet the original jurisdiction is with the parents. The TRC recommendations on this are that we need to look at how we begin to reparent.

Getting parenting programs to support parents with their children is a really preventative component there, but definitely within the systems, we need to look at where child welfare has a role and responsibility to play. It's not the only role. We need systems to work together. You need police, child welfare and social services to work together to keep the child safe.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thank you very much.

Rachel Blaney, you have two and a half minutes.