Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on June 22nd, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Go ahead, Ms. Perrier.

[Bridget Perrier]

We're going to go back to empowerment. I think we need to teach our boys not to rape. I think it just goes.... It's not about our little girls. Why is it always our females who have to bear the brunt of men's bad behaviours? I think we need to have “buyer bewares” throughout Canada to warn that if you're in this city, this territory, to buy sex, you're going to be publicly shamed.

If you put accountability on the men who are causing the problem, then it could mean putting a revenue-type thing on it, making more sex buyer busts, making them pay for us. I really think that when you tell them, “Hey, if you're caught buying sex in this neighbourhood, your car's going to be impounded, your vehicle's going to be tagged and your wife's going to get a letter”—or your spouse, your work or whatever....

I just think that we need to put the onus back on the buyers. That's my whole thing. It's the buyers. If we didn't have the demand, we wouldn't have this problem.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Trisha, would you like to come into this?

[Trisha Baptie]

I went to Sweden for three days. I was invited by the government to study the prostitution law they had just passed. I think we need to do two things that they did.

One was public education. All across transit, in the airports and everywhere, you'd see welcome signs saying that buying sex is a crime. They believe that, and they ingrained it into the fibre of their society. I went to a high school there because I wanted to talk to kids who had grown up under the new prostitution laws. I had 17-year-old girls tell me that they would not date boys who had looked at porn because they knew how much they were worth. This law changed the way they saw each other and the way they interacted.

If we want to change a country, we change the laws. We want laws that say this is ridiculous and you can go to jail for treating our women this way.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Wow. Thank you for that testimony.

Jaime Battiste, go ahead, please.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Yes, thank you. My question is going to be for Karen Pictou.

Karen, I want you to talk a little bit about the Jane Paul centre and the resiliency centre that you have planned. How are these important examples of how we can use part of the money with the missing and murdered indigenous women's group to prevent violence against women, and racism as well?

[Karen Pictou]

I did speak a little bit about the Jane Paul centre and the resiliency centre. Essentially, the prevention work would be in family healing and empowerment, as we talked about. It wouldn't just be open for victims or for survivors; it would be open to all of our community members to take part in healing activities. It's to do different things that are culturally based, to provide opportunity, provide training, provide support, provide community, and provide acceptance and eliminate stigma. It's all of those things. Every day, the Jane Paul centre works to prevent death and to prevent violence.

I believe the work we're doing.... We have about 10 volunteers—although not so many right now, because of COVID—who come and work out of the Jane Paul centre who are former clients. That shows that something we are doing is working, and it needs to be recognized.

I believe that future generation is one way we're going to prevent exploitation. As I said, we need to to build up our own identities as Mi'kmaq women and understand our key role within family, within community and within our society. That needs to get returned to us.

Another way will be around having space and place. In Nova Scotia, for example, Highway 102 is the human trafficking corridor to the rest of the country. The majority of women who are coming out of human trafficking across Canada started in Nova Scotia.

Believe you me, we may not talk about it a lot. As you know, Jaime, a lot of times our women are stigmatized when they come forward and talk about these types of things that have happened to them. A lot of times they're silent. However, this building—our resiliency centre—will be a beacon of hope. You will see our building from the 102. It will be a beacon of hope so that if a woman can just get to our door, they'll be okay. I guarantee that they will be okay.

Another thing that we're doing is working in partnership. We don't want to duplicate services from any other organization. We work very closely with the YWCA and the Mi’kmaw Native Friendship Centre. One of the things I'm doing in Sydney today is going to view some real estate. The Mi’kmaw Native Friendship Centre and the Nova Scotia Native Women's Association are partnering to open a home for women exiting human trafficking, as well as for women who are in need of a safe space. It will be located in Sydney. It will be owned and operated by indigenous women. Although that is a response to human trafficking, I know that it will also work as prevention, because our communities will be aware. There will be education. These women will survive and they'll be able to grow healthy families.

I'm sorry for the long-winded response. I'm trying to get in a lot in a short period of time.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

No, it was a good response.

Something I've always been curious about is this: If someone is seeking to leave trafficking and someone is in crisis or they feel they are vulnerable, what are the supports available for that person? Can they just call 911? Do they have culturally sensitive, relevant supports available so that they can just dial a number or send a text or log on to a website? Can you tell me what someone would be able to do and whether that is working?

[Karen Pictou]

Certainly I suppose you could call 911. I don't know that really that is the way it ever happens, though. I'm not aware of that.

I know that we do have a strong response within the police system in Nova Scotia, and we are very well connected with Corporal David Lane, who heads that group. They're certainly doing a lot to try to address this issue, but it's not working. It's not enough, and Constable David Lane would be the first to tell you that his back really is against the wall a lot of times. As soon as they start getting a track on someone, they move into a new province, and then there is this whole jurisdictional issue of trying to get the other province up to speed and so on.

To make a long story short, any woman who contacts the Nova Scotia Native Women's Association at any time of day, even if it's by pressing our Ring doorbell an the Jane Paul centre, can access someone at any time of day. Our new resiliency centre, once it is built, will have the same capability with a Ring doorbell. We'll bring them through to a safe space, even behind bulletproof glass, and hold them there until we can get them to safety. As the other lady said, if need be, we would bring them to our own homes. We have done that and we will continue to do that, but we shouldn't have to.

In Nova Scotia the only shelter available for women exiting human trafficking is church-based. I don't need to explain to you how problematic that is for indigenous women and girls here in Nova Scotia. There need to be alternatives, and that's why Pam Glode and I are ensuring that.... There's no money. We have no funding to do this. We're just doing it based on what we can gather up from donations to buy this building and to get it started. We believe that when we build it, the opportunity will come.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thank you.

Madame Bérubé, are you able to pose your question?

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Yes, Mr. Chair. My apologies, I had to step away.

Ms. Gobert, you said you want to see certain things happen. What are they?

[Janet Gobert]

I'm sorry, but could you repeat the question, please?

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

In your introduction, you mentioned some programs, especially education programs. You said that a Pandora's box must be opened and that political changes must be made. What are your recommendations for making those political changes?

[Janet Gobert]

I understand that all of the other witnesses are from larger centres, and this is quite a small community. What we have found is that there is such a roadblock when it comes to the RCMP and keeping these women safe.

I believe it was Karen who mentioned access, and I like what she said regarding this beacon and being able to press a button. That was something else that we had run into problems with. There was no funding, so the way we fixed that was that I now have a cellphone that is kept on 24 hours a day so that I can get out and help these women.

With regard to political change, I'm sorry, but I'm at an impasse. I do not know what I could recommend at this point. All I know is that something needs to change in order to keep our women safe.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thank you very much. Thanks, Madam Bérubé.

Rachel Blaney, go ahead, please.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you, Chair. I will go to Trisha.

You didn't get a chance to answer my question, and I will frame it specifically for you, based on your previous testimony.

You talked about the area where trafficked indigenous persons are and the fact that the aboriginal housing is right there. The services are a couple of blocks away, and they're staying in that area because they don't have an alternative.

When we talked about having the resources to support people who are trying to get out, you talked about the ability to leave and how beneficial resources are for you. Do you see a gap there in this particular case?

[Trisha Baptie]

It's a huge gap. There's a bit of push and pull, right? Some women are scared of leaving the area; they've never really left the area before. What does it mean to be out of the area? Some do feel more comforted being in the area, but my girlfriend has three kids and lives in aboriginal housing, which is not even 500 metres away from where we used to work. Now she's taking her kids by that area, and it's triggering her every day. How do you stay sober when you're triggered every day, right?

I think you're from B.C., right? In Vancouver here we call it poverty pimping. We have these monolithic organizations that try to take over every project that comes up, and in doing that, they trap everyone in this part of the city in an area of —I'll be generous—ten square blocks and then turn and look at people and say that they have all the resources they need, but they don't. They don't have anything.

In Vancouver here, we have harm reduction. We don't have recovery; that's too expensive. We don't have detox beds; that costs money. Giving a condom and a needle is the cheapest way to deal with this issue.

We need to find the political will to put money into resources that say we value our women—not only our indigenous women, who are absolutely owed that, but women, period. We have a Prime Minister who wants to say we have a feminist government or a feminist country; I call bullshit on that. I still can't get a peace bond for a woman who's black and blue. I still can't get police to take trafficking seriously.

I hate the word “trafficking”; it's prostitution. Trafficking is just a fancy new label for something that's been going on for millennia, which is men's sexual abuse of women, right?

Sorry. I went on a tirade.

What I think would be beneficial is to create programs outside the demographic of where women are abused and slowly work them into communities outside of what they know. I succeeded because I'm not walking by a crack dealer to go and get milk. I'm not walking down a street where every third car is asking me if I'm for sale.

We need to change the living conditions of women, and by that I mean that we need to expand the parameters of where they can live, because we've limited them to these little spaces that entrap them in a cycle over and over and over again.

Okay, I'm done.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Wow. That's amazing testimony.

Members of the committee and witnesses, the analysts are tasked to provide our committee with a summary of the evidence from you, the witnesses. That's for our reference when the committee does reconvene, whenever that may be.

May I say on behalf of the committee that I'm so thankful for having had the opportunity to be in your presence and to hear what you have to say. The subtext, for me, is the self-esteem that you have, considering what you've been through in your life journeys. It would be very easy for any one of you to basically give up, and here you are fighting for what you know is right, based on your experience. I think that all of us need to learn that no matter where we are and whatever the influences have been on our lives, there's still a better outcome available if only we strive toward that, and that's why you are here today.

Our analysts will be capturing that. We're not finished with this study, but on behalf of all of our committee, I want to thank you so much. This has been life-changing, I'm sure, for all of us.

With that, this meeting is adjourned.