Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on June 3rd, 2024

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the minister and his team who are here to talk about indigenous policing. It's a very important issue across the country, but in the riding I represent it's significant.

We have 33 communities in the Northwest Territories and 12 of them don't have any police. I don't believe those would be listed as “vacant positions” under your statistics because there are no police. The concern that's being conveyed to me is that it's putting the leadership, who by default become the peacekeepers in the communities because there's nobody else there, in serious, sometimes very dangerous, predicaments.

I wanted to ask you to explain why no community in the Northwest Territories or Nunavut has signed the tripartite agreement to receive enhanced police services under your program.

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

In a conversation you and I had some months ago, Mr. McLeod, I was surprised.... And in fact I discussed this with the RCMP, and in a subsequent conversation with your premier, who has kept some of this responsibility for himself. I thought it was interesting in my discussions with the new premier about the importance of working with his government that he echoed exactly the concern, Mr. McLeod, that you just shared with us around these communities that do not have specific police resources assigned to them.

It is, as the assistant commissioner noted, a challenge across the country, but it's not one that should excuse a lack of police presence in communities that are in many cases isolated and would require that basic element of public safety.

I don't know if Deputy Commissioner Larkin or Assistant Commissioner Brown can speak to the specific tripartite agreements in the Northwest Territories? Perhaps Assistant Commissioner Brown has that specific answer for Mr. McLeod.

[A/Commr Warren Brown]

I don't want to volley this back to our colleagues at Public Safety Canada, however, the RCMP is responsible for providing contract policing to a specific province or territory. Presently, we're working with Public Safety Canada, I believe in a consultation phase. I'm not aware if we do have any CTA positions presently in the territories, but I'm hoping that we may get there. I'm not aware of any detachment that is not staffed.

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

I'm going to interrupt you. Obviously, you're not getting to what I'm talking about.

We seem to have a challenge in the northern territories about trying to have indigenous policing in the territories. When I raised the question with the territorial government, they said they don't have the resources to cost-share either RCMP or indigenous police. When I talk to the federal government, and you're the third minister I've talked to, the response has always been that there is no enabling legislation.

I'm very disappointed that we're still taking this colonial attitude, where we have to have the indigenous government go to a third party for public safety. Why are we not engaging with indigenous governments to set up policing programs when we have resources at the federal level, but we have no partners to take it on because the provinces in some cases—in my situation, the territorial government—do not have the resources to cost-share? Why aren't we discussing this as a possibility for indigenous governments to engage?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Mr. Chair, that's exactly what our objective would be, to have indigenous governments and indigenous partners lead the establishment and the maintenance of these police services. This was my conversation with the northern premiers. The challenge is that the provision of RCMP services, as the assistant commissioner noted, is subject to the contract that we would have with the Government of the Northwest Territories. This, in terms of allocating police resources in the territory, is a constant challenge.

They're correct—I see Mr. McLeod smiling—to identify the lack of funding as a concern—

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

I have to interrupt you because—

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Mr. McLeod, I'm afraid your time has—

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

—it has become a hot potato. I hear what you're saying: that it's the territorial government. The territorial government says it's you. Where does it end? Do communities have to declare a state of emergency before somebody will engage? There is no policing.

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

I take your point, Mr. McLeod—and, Mr. Chair, I know we're out of time. In no way would I seek to pass the hot potato to the new premier, with whom I had a very positive discussion. We got increased funding for indigenous police services in the last budget. I committed to working with the Premier of the Northwest Territories and the RCMP leadership to find the best way to deal with what, at the very root of your question, is a circumstance that should worry all of us.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much, Mr. McLeod.

Next we are moving to Mr. Lemire.

You have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, we have been waiting for a bill to recognize first nations policing as an essential service for more than five years. Can we establish a link between the Auditor General's rather damning report, the fact that this committee called you to appear today, and your meeting this afternoon to move the file forward?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Mr. Lemire, I have already had discussions with the national chief, whom I met for the first time in Winnipeg last fall, I believe. The deputy minister also met with her a few months ago.

I understand the urgency and I accept it. I also recognize that this is not simple in terms of effort. If it were simple, I would like to think that my predecessors may have come up with something. However, I recognize the urgency of taking action, since we all know the history, whether in your region, in Mr. McLeod's region, in the Northwest Territories, or in other regions.

I'm continuing my work and I hope to move forward as quickly as possible.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

First nations have a very clear expectation. They expect more transparency in legislative processes.

The process of drafting Bill C-61, which concerns water, was particularly appreciated by first nations, as it was a collaborative effort. Are collaborative efforts being made transparently with first nations in the preparation of a bill to recognize indigenous policing as an essential service?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Again, that's a very good question. The success of the bill on water shows that we should draw inspiration from such efforts in the future.

Yes, we are engaged in a discussion on the co-development of an indigenous policing bill with the Assembly of First Nations. I won't hide the fact that the issue of inherent rights is a challenge for us, and not the issue of recognizing indigenous policing as an essential service. Some people have suggested the idea of recognizing an inherent right to police services. So you will understand that we are facing difficult constitutional obstacles.

So I'm trying to co-develop a bill with the Assembly of First Nations based on the good example you used. It's not as direct as I would have liked, but that doesn't stop us from continuing to try, in good faith.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much, Mr. Lemire.

For our last questioner of the second panel here, we have Ms. Idlout for two and a half minutes.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

[Member spoke in Inuktitut, interpreted as follows:]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

As I read the report, I hear and read that the police have no cultural training or cross-cultural training. They have no idea about indigenous lifestyles, and they are not trauma-informed. The Auditor General's report found that the RCMP did not get either cultural or trauma-informed training. Learning this, what changes will be made to ensure that both cultural-specific and trauma-informed training are provided to the RCMP?

[English]

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

I, too, read that, and in my conversations directly with the Auditor General, I discussed that very issue with her. I and the assistant commissioner identified some of the indigenous troops who are going through Depot now.

From my visit to Depot last fall, and from my conversations with officials from the public safety department and the leadership of the RCMP, I think that circumstance has been very significantly improved.

We can always do better and do more, but my conversations with both the commissioner and my colleagues, who are here today, tell me that there are very specific training programs currently in place. It's not only indigenous members who are joining the RCMP, but all members who would serve in Canada's national police force who would benefit from that culturally appropriate training and understanding.

Maybe the assistant commissioner can provide some precise detail. I take the question in the earnestness with which was posed, and certainly commit our government to ensuring that it is not a recurring circumstance. I'm optimistic by the work that's been done, though.

The assistant commissioner can perhaps provide more specific reassurance than my words.

[A/Commr Warren Brown]

We've just hired our first Inuit cadet, who will be attending Depot this month. They're the first Inuit member we've hired in the past decade. We've just hired two operators in our dispatch centre in Iqaluit, which you spoke about earlier, who speak Inuktitut. Also, all front counter staff at the Iqaluit detachment speak Inuktitut.

We have a 40-hour training regime at Depot for all RCMP cadets on indigenous studies. That includes the blanket exercise. I was part of the very first training exercise last week, where we now have a floor map journey. That's a more comprehensive lived experience for Inuit, first nations and Métis people for significant dates and the impact the RCMP has had.

I would suggest that while we're not there, we're certainly getting there.

The management action board, as well—

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Mr. Brown, I'm afraid we've run out of time, but thank you very much.

Thank you very much, Ms. Idlout.

That concludes our second panel.

I want to thank Minister LeBlanc for appearing today, as well as the officials from Public Safety and the RCMP. I know, Minister, that you need to make it to a very important meeting.

With that, we're going to briefly suspend before we go in camera to do some committee business.

[Proceedings continue in camera]