Evidence of meeting #12 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was president.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Eva Clayton  President, Nisga'a Lisims Government
Alvina Paul  Councillor, Sechelt Indian Band

1 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to the 12th meeting of this committee on indigenous and northern affairs. We're gathered here today on the unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people.

Today, we continue our study on the effects of the housing shortage on Canada's indigenous peoples.

Today we will be hearing from president Eva Clayton from the Nisga'a Lisims Government, as well as from councillor Alvina Paul from the Sechelt Indian Band.

The second half of our meeting will be dedicated to considering the draft of our first report on barriers to indigenous economic development, followed by a brief discussion of committee business.

I would like to remind everyone of the Board of Internal Economy's requirements with respect to physical distancing and masking.

To ensure an orderly meeting, I would like to outline a few rules that we follow.

Members or witnesses may speak in the official language of their choice. Interpretation services in English, French and Inuktitut are available for the first part of today's meeting. Please be patient with the interpretation. In some cases, there's a delay because they have to go from Inuktitut into English, and then translate from English into French if somebody wants to listen in French, and vice versa. The interpretation button is found at the bottom of your screen for English, French or Inuktitut. If interpretation is lost, please inform me immediately and we will stop things until we fix them.

Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. When speaking, please speak slowly and clearly. When you are not speaking, your microphone should be on mute. I would remind you that all comments should be addressed through the chair.

Our two guests will each have five minutes to speak, and then we will proceed with a first round of questions.

With that, I would now like to invite President Clayton to start us off.

President Clayton, you have five minutes.

1 p.m.

Eva Clayton President, Nisga'a Lisims Government

Thank you.

Good afternoon to the House of Commons Standing Committee on Indigenous and Northern Affairs.

It gives me great pleasure to appear before you today to provide some context to the issues of housing shortages in indigenous communities. By way of background, I'm here as the president of Nisga'a Lisims Government, representing the Nisga'a Nation.

Indeed, adequate housing has always been an issue since the arrival of newcomers. Prior to contact, the nation lived communally and lived on the land and the waters, where we gathered our clothing, food, fish, berries and other staples that ensured our survival. After contact, the Indian Act was imposed, and we were placed on postage-stamp reserves and were given the bare minimum to work with to create housing. Over the generations, it certainly has been a challenge.

Prior to the Nisga'a Treaty, each Nisga'a village operated its own housing programs directly with Indian and Northern Affairs. Some of the issues that we are still faced with today include overcrowded housing with multiple families, the lack of land to develop further housing, families living in dilapidated houses, and mould and other serious matters that cause great concern for the health of our people. That is to name just a few. Post-treaty, we have been working with the tools in our treaty and, indeed, with our treaty partners, to address the serious issue of housing shortages.

Our housing management program has evolved over time and, more recently, we have made significant progress with our treaty partners. We recognize the importance of the issues, and the Nisga'a government has established a new directorate of housing, capital and facilities operations to create a unified approach to housing in the Nisga'a villages of New Aiyansh, Gitwinksihlkw, Laxgalts'ap and Gingolx.

We also established a relationship with B.C. Housing through a memorandum of understanding. The intent of the MOU was to share and develop best practices in residential asset management. The Nisga'a Nation recognizes that asset management is more than a report or plan; it is an approach to managing our housing infrastructure in a more sustainable way. To ensure this, our approach builds the capacity within our nation to deliver a significant amount of hands-on training to our current housing staff in the following areas, which are listed in my presentation: asset condition assessments, data management and capital planning, to name a few.

In December of 2020, I had the opportunity to meet with former MP Adam Vaughan. At that time, I shared with Mr. Vaughan that the Nisga'a Nation, through our administration, routinely calculates and assesses our crowding rates through different methods. We estimate that between 15% to 30% of households on Nisga'a lands are overcrowded, and the pandemic has increased overcrowding. We know that our women and children are disproportionately impacted by poor-quality housing and by this pandemic.

The overcrowding and the inability to manage major repairs lead to increased mould in houses and increased asthma and other health issues. Through our work with our fellow self-governing indigenous groups, we have a technical team that has been working on pillars to address funding requirements with Canada as our treaty partner.

In order to protect our most vulnerable, the self-governing indigenous governments, SGIGs, asked Canada to make a targeted investment of $426 million in safe, affordable housing and to support infrastructure for citizens living below the poverty line. The SGIG proposal aligns with our government-to-government relationship and with policy commitments that Canada has made to support SGIGs' access to affordable and adequate housing.

Our legislature, Wilp Si'ayuukhl Nisga'a, met in the last three days, and they were so very happy when we announced the good news about the housing funding. They were jubilant about making sure that we address the housing shortages.

1:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau

Ms. Clayton, I'll ask you to wrap up now.

1:10 p.m.

President, Nisga'a Lisims Government

Eva Clayton

Okay, thank you.

The increase in funding is coming to the Nisga'a Nation over four years. As I stated regarding the $44 million, our legislature was very jubilant, and we are delighted by the government-to-government approach to address this issue. For us, this is just the beginning.

Thank you.

1:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau

Thank you, President Clayton.

I'd now like to hand the microphone to Alvina Paul.

Councillor, you have five minutes.

1:10 p.m.

Alvina Paul Councillor, Sechelt Indian Band

Thank you very much.

Good afternoon, everyone. My name is Alvina Paul. I am council-elect of the shíshálh Nation. I am coming to you from the unceded territories of the Coast Salish people of British Columbia.

I am delighted to accept this invitation to speak to you today on this very important matter. The challenges related to the shortage of housing are rampant throughout first nations communities and their respective swiyas across the country of Canada.

The shortage of housing has been our highest priority and something we are very familiar with. Our current leadership team and previous leaders have always made it our mission to establish affordable and sustainable housing for our people.

I come to you with a good heart, to share the struggles and desperation for the lack of housing in our community.

This is to emphasize the importance of the housing crisis. Our community has made great strides in developing land and developing the resources necessary to house our members. We are approximately 1,500 strong in our nation. We have about 50% of our people living within our swiya and far fewer living on the shíshálh Nation lands.

Due to the already impossible cost of living we are facing today, our people are unable to afford the homes in the rental market and are often unable to attain their own mortgages. It is, and always has been, our intent to build homes for our shíshálh Nation members.

We have multiple generations living together under one roof. Most homes are made up of youth aging out of care, single-parent families and elders. A study we had commissioned confirms that we have overcrowded homes and a population of transient or unhomed members who find themselves couch surfing as they are unable to afford housing on their own. Additionally, members have taken opportunities to purchase homes that we have for lease to non-nation people to generate revenue. The lack of our housing has pushed our nation members to purchase those homes to live in so that they can live within the community.

There are currently 165 homes within our four nation subdivisions and the nation is currently developing a new subdivision of 44 service lots with funding that we have received from the self-governing indigenous governments negotiations.

As it currently stands, we have well over 100 people on our housing waiting list, each coming from different family sizes and circumstances. It is our belief that this is just the tip of the iceberg, as many of our nation members are reluctant to submit applications, knowing the severity of the housing crisis within our nation. At this point our people are forced to leave their traditional lands to find affordable housing in other communities, separating them from their families and culture. These families deserve access to nation-provided services, as well as strong family values and the support promoted by the security of community and encouragement of traditional and cultural practices. More importantly, they deserve the opportunity to participate in the preservation of our language.

Housing in our community is our number one priority and we would like to have the opportunity to build everyone a home within our community, but of course that takes resources. My predecessors and my co-council have maintained for years that providing housing will benefit the mental, physical, emotional and spiritual needs of our nation members.

We would like to increase our capacity to build homes to ensure that we have our shíshálh Nation living together communally like we once had.

In closing, I would like to wish you all well and to acknowledge all our nations across this great country.

Thank you.

1:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau

Thank you, Councillor Paul.

We'll now proceed to a round of questions, beginning with Mr. Schmale from the Conservative Party.

Mr. Schmale, you have six minutes.

1:15 p.m.

Conservative

Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, witnesses, for your testimony today. It's similar information to what we've heard in other testimony. We do appreciate it. It's very important as we try to develop policies to help the current situation.

My first question would be for President Clayton. I'm glad she was able to be here today.

I notice from your website and your testimony today that you talk about citizens within your territory now having the ability to sell, transfer or will their land to anyone, whether they're first nations or non-first nations. You talked about the ability to secure mortgages on this land.

Could you tell us more about that and how they're able to work around the Indian Act?

1:15 p.m.

President, Nisga'a Lisims Government

Eva Clayton

Thank you for your question.

The work of the previous leaders for our citizens to sell, transfer or will their homes has been a work in progress over time. Many of our citizens have not utilized that because of the shortage. Many are understanding the ability to will their homes to loved ones. It's still a work in progress when it comes to our citizens understanding their abilities to participate in Canada fully.

Thank you.

1:15 p.m.

Conservative

Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON

Thank you.

President Clayton, I will continue with you for this time.

Can you talk about any road bumps or cautionary tales that other nations might be able to take from your experience?

1:15 p.m.

President, Nisga'a Lisims Government

Eva Clayton

Is that road bumps in terms of housing?

1:15 p.m.

Conservative

Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON

Yes, and what are any cautionary tales or the kinds of things that you've learned along the process that other nations or this committee could recommend to the minister?

1:15 p.m.

President, Nisga'a Lisims Government

Eva Clayton

We have been encountering all good things in terms of learning how to reach out, government to government, with our treaty partners.

It's been a challenge. There have been some bumps in the road in understanding the relationships as set out in the treaty, especially in regard to understanding the implementation and understanding that we are not band councils anymore and that we should not be lumped in with, for example, the Assembly of First Nations.

Anything to do with housing programs coming from Canada, as an example, should be going to the modern-day treaty groups or the SGIGs.

Thank you.

1:20 p.m.

Conservative

Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON

President Clayton, continuing along this path, what steps had to be in place to ensure that the Nisga'a Landholding Transition Act became a reality?

Did certain economic or social considerations need to be in place before your nation could consider such a proposal?

1:20 p.m.

President, Nisga'a Lisims Government

Eva Clayton

No. We entered into the treaty with no economic base, as we all know. It's been a challenge to walk forward and truly build the economic base.

1:20 p.m.

Conservative

Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON

President Clayton, you had mentioned some of this in your testimony, but maybe you can elaborate more about the results that your housing program has been able to deliver, both from an economic and a social perspective, please.

1:20 p.m.

President, Nisga'a Lisims Government

Eva Clayton

Thank you for the social perspective.

We used many methods to gauge the state of our housing on Nisga'a lands. It's been a challenge for us to get funding in place, but we have hope that this will happen.

We have also been looking at the invisible homeless on Nisga'a lands. That invisible homeless are the multiple families that [Technical difficulty—Editor].

1:20 p.m.

Conservative

Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON

President Clayton, could you just finish that last bit? Your feed froze.

1:20 p.m.

President, Nisga'a Lisims Government

Eva Clayton

I'm sorry.

1:20 p.m.

Conservative

Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON

It's not your fault.

1:20 p.m.

President, Nisga'a Lisims Government

Eva Clayton

The Nisga'a Nation has been experiencing invisible homelessness. By that I mean that we have multiple families under one roof. It causes health issues and other issues.

For instance, in my home, I have three families living under the same roof. Through the pandemic, it created some challenges. It creates the ability for children to grow in a healthy place.

Thank you.

1:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau

Thank you, Mr. Schmale.

Mr. Weiler, you have six minutes.

1:20 p.m.

Liberal

Patrick Weiler Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC

Thank you, Chair.

I'd also like to thank President Clayton and Councillor Paul for joining today to talk about a subject that's top of mind across the country but especially in indigenous communities.

It's really great to have the first nation with a modern treaty in B.C. represented today, as well as the first self-governing first nation in Canada. It's really important for us to hear the particular concerns of self-governing indigenous governments.

I'd like to direct my first question to the shíshálh Nation. In last year's budget, we had funding for two large programs, the rapid housing initiative, 41% of which went towards indigenous recipients in B.C. to rapidly roll out housing solutions to the most vulnerable, and the indigenous community infrastructure fund, which has over half a billion dollars directed towards self-governing first nations and modern treaty partners for infrastructure and housing priorities.

Councillor Paul, I was hoping you could explain to this committee how these programs fit into advancing the housing plan of the shíshálh housing authority and what recommendations you would have for the government to improve upon these programs to ensure that they meet the needs of the shíshálh Nation and perhaps other self-governing first nations.

1:20 p.m.

Councillor, Sechelt Indian Band

Alvina Paul

Thank you, Patrick.

Yes, in last year's budget we did receive some of the funding for rapid housing. We have three duplexes being constructed at the moment. We hope to have them move-in ready by this fall. We appreciate your working together with us and bringing these projects for affordable housing to the community.

We hope to have another application in soon for more units. We do have other projects, such as our house of clans, which will be supported housing. We received funds from B.C. Housing on that project also, which is 34 units of apartments within the community.

The indigenous government infrastructure fund is also something that we've tapped into in regard to expanding our community by creating and building a new subdivision. We're also in the midst of building a new subdivision with the funds from the Canadian infrastructure grant that was provided from the federal government. That covers a portion, but we've also covered and topped up where we had to so that we could make this project come to life. We will have 44 lots under infrastructure soon. We hope to have those ready to build on by this fall.

1:25 p.m.

Liberal

Patrick Weiler Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC

That's fantastic. It will be great to see those projects come to fruition. It's really amazing to see the work already being done on our house of clans, as well.

I was hoping, Councillor Paul, that you could provide some commentary to let us know if these programs are really fit for purpose or if there are ways that we should consider restructuring these programs to really meet the needs of self-governing indigenous governments. Do you see a need for a separate type of programming to meet the particular housing needs of the shíshálh Nation?