Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Oct. 3rd, 2024

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

As I was saying, like you, I wonder whether Bill C‑61 is as robust as people claim. The Canadian government often shows a certain level of complacency. As the saying goes, we don't always walk the talk.

To ensure true economic reconciliation, we must also address the real issues facing the first nations and the impact of certain matters.

For example, Chief Miskokomon, what do you think about the fact that Bill C‑61 doesn't address natural resource management or energy transition decisions?

Do you want to be involved in the decision‑making process and be part of the solution?

How does this affect your water and land management rights?

[Chief Joe Miskokomon]

In its current state, I don't believe it would adequately address other issues associated with first nations.

We are negotiating land claims within the southwest. We've already received authority to buy back land. That amounts to over 8,000 acres. Take the confined area of southwestern Ontario. That's a substantial piece of property. When we try to do additions to reserves, it takes over 20 years.

We've currently been in negotiations and discussions with ISC for the past 20 years to increase and improve the quality of water. These additions, now, will remain agricultural to a large extent. In fact, we're in the industrial heartland. Some of the properties we've obtained are within 10 kilometres of the 401 and 402 interchange, where a tremendous amount of industrial traffic goes back and forth. We have a Volkswagen plant in St. Thomas, 20 kilometres away from us.

There is going to be a whole series of subsidiary-type industries within that region. If we can't put forward the three main and important points of reliability, sustainability and affordability, we will never achieve economic reconciliation the way the legislation is currently drafted. It needs to have a secure and flexible way of creating first nations financing that controls not only the system but also the financial mechanism within which we must operate and compete with these other municipal jurisdictions.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Would you like to see amendments to other elements or specific wording in the bill, so that we can be part of this reconciliation and give you real power of self‑determination?

[Chief Joe Miskokomon]

Flexibility also has to be given to the commission. I think a lot of the authority needs to be taken away from ISC and placed in the hands of first nations and within our own models, so we can exercise our own jurisdiction and develop our own mechanisms without the burden of having to constantly justify what we're doing back to other offices, which may have little, if any, contact with our region.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I wonder about the fact that there currently doesn't seem to be a real system of whistle-blowers or an advocate from the first nations to blow the whistle. I'm thinking in particular about the impact of the lack of access to quality water. People are talking about setting up a commission. This mechanism could help resolve these issues, or at least make them heard.

What do you think of this solution? Should the first nations be part of the solution and present at the table?

[Chief Joe Miskokomon]

Absolutely. There's no question in my mind that they shouldn't just be at the table. They should be driving the table for solutions. You can't have reconciliation when you have a top-down approach for solutions. If we're going to achieve any form of reconciliation.... The problem is that policy frameworks are established and then imposed, as my friends have said to the committee. We don't need the imposition. We need the collaboration. We don't need the confrontation. We need the accommodation.

I think it's very important that we start from an honest basis. We are the third government of Canada. We have constitutionally protected rights. It's now time that you, as parliamentarians, exercise your responsibility in the transfer of those constitutional rights to us.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Meegwetch.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Jamie Schmale]

You're a touch over, but our meeting time is drawing to an end so I have to go to Ms. Ashton for six minutes.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you very much.

I'm pleased to be back at the INAN committee to discuss Bill C-61. However, it's not lost on me that next week, in Ottawa, a team of Liberal government-hired lawyers will be sitting in a courtroom fighting 59 first nations, including the Shamattawa First Nation here in my riding, on the very issue of clean drinking water.

It's very important that we are clear there's hypocrisy in the very fact that first nations here in our region—like Shamattawa, the TCN and others—have suffered under long-term boil water advisories. For years and decades, they have fought for access to clean drinking water and have had to pursue legal action against Canada to be able to realize that very fundamental right.

I also think it's hypocritical that the Liberals keep pointing to Bill C-61 as the be-all and end-all while they fight first nations like Shamattawa in the Supreme Court, which we will be seeing next week. Shamattawa and other first nations have asked to simply work with the federal government in real terms to be able to deliver clean drinking water for their first nations. Instead of working with them and instead of collaborating with them, the federal government has chosen to fight them at the Supreme Court.

That's something I think is shameful for Canada in the year 2024. It's shameful in a country as wealthy as ours. Any Canadian would be shocked to know that our basic human right of access to clean drinking water is not being made available to first nations. Instead of working with them to find solutions, the federal government is choosing to fight them in court.

I want to direct my first question to Chief Beardy of Tataskweyak Cree Nation here in our region.

Chief Beardy, the Tataskweyak Cree Nation is no stranger to fighting this federal government. Your community, along with the Neskantaga First Nation and Curve Lake First Nation, took on the Liberal government and won. In fact, your community took your fight all the way to the United Nations, which was something I was proud to support.

In your statement, you spoke of how profoundly the government has failed your community and how the water in your community made and continues to make people sick. When ISC officials came to TCN and Split Lake, they initially denied that the water was unsafe. They refused to test for the specific contaminants that were harming your members. At the time, they claimed that your water continued to meet approved guidelines, and that was that. This is typical of a government that shows more respect for guidelines than it does for first nations.

It got so bad that TCN was forced to hire its own analysts to convince the federal government to act. It shouldn't take that much effort.

Three years ago, the Auditor General pointed to the various ways the federal government was failing TCN and first nations on clean drinking water. There was a lack of funding to retain staff. The funding formula to train people at water treatment plants hadn't been updated in over 15 years. There was a consistent refusal to update the list of contaminants.

We hear now that a new water treatment plant is in the works, but you've pointed to the ongoing lack of clean drinking water. Have you noticed a change in the last three years since the Auditor General released this information, when it comes to access to clean drinking water in your first nation?

[Chief Taralee Beardy]

We're still using our old water treatment plant. It can't filter or clean the water as it should, so we're still under a boil water advisory. Nothing has changed since then. We still continue to not have clean drinking water straight from the taps. We have to have bottled water trucked in on a weekly basis. We still have ongoing issues with our water quality to this day.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you. It's terrible to hear that.

I want to acknowledge that the TCN is also part of the court case that will be at the Supreme Court next week, along with the Shamattawa First Nation and 58 other first nations. In your current case over the Liberal government's failure to provide clean drinking water to first nations, we know that government lawyers are arguing that first nations don't have an inherent right to clean drinking water. They're also arguing that, when ministers in this government say things like, “The lack of clean drinking water for first nations is unacceptable,” it's just, as one lawyer put it to me, “political theatre and not something that should be taken seriously.”

When it comes to commitments made by ministers in an election campaign, in Parliament or in press conferences to deliver clean drinking water, government lawyers are arguing they are not actual commitments to first nations.

Based on your experience fighting the federal government in court on clean drinking water, do you take its commitments to deliver clean drinking water to all first nations seriously, given what the TCN has gone through?

[Chief Taralee Beardy]

I really hope they do. It's very essential for our health and wellness. We signed treaties that haven't been honoured, so I'm hoping this government makes an effort to help our first nations, especially in remote locations like Split Lake, Shamattawa and other communities that are affected, because our people are getting sick.

We really need them to step up and honour the treaties. They said they would help our people, which is not happening to this day. I agree with what the chief said. We should be at the top, leading on Bill C-61.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Yes.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Jamie Schmale]

Ms. Ashton, unfortunately we are out of time in this round of questioning.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Jamie Schmale]

Unfortunately, we have gone over time in this meeting, although—

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Chair, I think that you're about to wrap up the first part of the committee meeting. However, I would like to make a somewhat unusual request. Since there obviously won't be a second round of questions, could we ask a witness to stay for the second hour? Can we ask for an exceptional procedure?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Jamie Schmale]

I think it's up to the committee, and I serve you.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I want to know whether Ms. Exner‑Pirot can stay with us for the second hour of the meeting. I found her testimony particularly compelling. I would have liked to ask her some questions. However, I was unable to do so because we didn't have a second round.

[Dr. Heather Exner-Pirot]

I'm happy to stay.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Jamie Schmale]

Anything is up to the committee in terms of what they want to do.

I'm just doing the time. We're going to have a few minutes to swap everyone out. That will take us, probably, to 9:30. We have three witnesses. That's 15 minutes of opening statements. We're supposed to end at 10:15.

I leave it to the powers of the committee. We can....

Mr. Battiste.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

[Technical difficulty—Editor] with his request because he—

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Jamie Schmale]

With the doctor staying...?

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Yes. I mean, he wants to ask his question of a certain witness. He didn't get a chance. We can't do another round because of time, but we have another panel of guests. We can't just hold that off.

I'm okay with that.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Jamie Schmale]

Okay.

Ms. Ashton.