Evidence of meeting #133 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was amendment.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Jenica Atwin Liberal Fredericton, NB
I have a question. I think it's the first time we see “Treasury Board” in the bill. Are there any implications to that as far as, again, the scope of the bill and its intention? I'm just curious.
Director General, Community Infrastructure Branch, Department of Indigenous Services
Thanks for the question.
It is the first reference to “Treasury Board”. I guess the bill names the Minister of Indigenous Services Canada, so this introduces a new party into some arrangements. It's not entirely clear in my mind what Treasury Board would do in this case.
If this is maybe intended to be a financial arrangement, that is typically with the Minister of ISC or with Finance Canada. Treasury Board usually supports the implementation of programming or the administration of funds, so it certainly is a new party. The Minister of ISC is named throughout, as you've commented many times. It's not entirely clear in my mind, at least, what the Treasury Board relationship or agreement-making would be in this case.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
I'm not seeing any other hands up, so let's go to a vote. Shall NDP-45 carry?
I think we need a recorded division.
(Amendment negatived: nays 10; yeas 1)
(Clause 23 as amended agreed to on division)
(Clause 24 agreed to on division)
This takes us to new clause 24.1 and CPC-8. I'll mention that I'll have something to say about this particular amendment, should it be moved.
I'll open the floor up to Mr. Vidal.
Conservative
Gary Vidal Conservative Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK
Thank you, Chair.
On behalf of Mr. Melillo, I will move CPC-8.
It reads that Bill C-61 be amended by adding, after line 8 on page 14, the following new clause:
24.1 (1) A First Nation law does not apply in a protection zone unless the Minister enters into an agreement with the First Nation governing body that made the law and the government of the province or territory in which the First Nation lands are located respecting the administration and enforcement of the First Nation law.
(2) The parties to the agreement may include a municipal government or any public body acting under the authority of the First Nation.
If you have something to say about it, Chair, I will wait until you have your say before I proceed any further, if that's all right.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
That's quite all right, Mr. Vidal.
Unfortunately, I need to make a ruling on this. The amendment proposes to place the responsibility for entering into an agreement on the minister.
House of Commons Procedure and Practice, third edition, states on page 770:
An amendment to a bill that was referred to a committee after second reading is out of order if it is beyond the scope and principle of the bill.
In the opinion of the chair, this goes against the principle of the bill. Therefore, the amendment is inadmissible.
I know, Mr. Vidal, that you mentioned you might have something to say. If not, that ruling will stay as is, and we'll move on to the next clause.
Mr. Vidal, the floor is yours.
Conservative
Gary Vidal Conservative Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK
Thank you, Chair.
I don't have a lot of history here. I'm following the lead of my colleague. However, I would like to challenge your ruling on this.
If the committee will indulge me, I'll explain why our side disagrees with this.
Protection zones apply in areas that are typically areas of land not owned or regulated by the federal government. Water is also a resource with some exceptions, such as navigable waters, which are regulated by the provincial governments. This amendment is consistent with the requirement in paragraph 6(1)(b) that first nation, federal, provincial and territorial governments need to agree on “an approach to coordinate the application of” each government's laws in protection zones. The onus of reaching the agreement would be on the federal minister, not the first nation or provincial government. This addresses concerns raised by the nations about having to take the lead in negotiating these agreements. It would also stipulate what the agreement would likely already include and require it to be part of that.
While protection zones remain undefined in the bill, we need to carefully consider their impacts. I understand we are still working on that definition, so this may become a factor later. These zones, depending on where and how big they are, could affect a large number of individuals who reside or work in an area. There needs to be clear consideration of how first nation laws will be implemented, shared with those who reside and work in these zones, and enforced.
Conservative
Liberal
Jenica Atwin Liberal Fredericton, NB
Chair, it's just procedural.
I think, once we have called into question the ruling of the chair, we have to go right to a vote.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
It's true. I was giving some leeway to Mr. Vidal here, but that is technically true.
Conservative
Conservative
Gary Vidal Conservative Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK
I'll skip the rest.
I will end with this: We'd like to emphasize that there needs to be clear consideration of how laws in a protection zone are applied and enforced to ensure residents and workers in an area can be made aware of new laws they would need to follow. A collaborative approach will ensure we can achieve this with the bill and its intended goals.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
Thank you, Mr. Vidal.
With that, we will go to the vote.
(Ruling of the chair sustained: yeas 7; nays 4)
(On clause 25)
NDP-47 is the next amendment.
I will open the floor up to Ms. Idlout.
NDP
Lori Idlout NDP Nunavut, NU
Qujannamiik, Iksivautaq.
NDP-46 was an amendment submitted to us by the Okanagan Indian Band and—
Liberal
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
In the last meeting, it was withdrawn pursuant to the request, I believe, from AFN.
NDP
Lori Idlout NDP Nunavut, NU
NDP-47 was submitted to us by the Federation of Sovereign Indigenous Nations. It seeks to improve the bill by amending clause 25 by adding the following:
(c) the administration and enforcement of First Nation regulations and those
Qujannamiik.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
Thank you very much, Ms. Idlout.
NDP‑47 is moved. We'll open the floor up for debate.
Would any member like to make an intervention?
Mrs. Atwin.
Liberal
Jenica Atwin Liberal Fredericton, NB
I think I'd like to put forward a subamendment. I'll need you to suspend, if possible, so I can do that.
Could we suspend briefly so I can put forward a subamendment?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
I call the meeting back to order.
When we left off, there was discussion about a subamendment, which has now been circulated.
I'm going to read the subamendment to amend NDP-47. In the bill, on lines 18 and 19 of page 14, it would read:
(c) the administration and enforcement of First Nation laws and the administration and enforcement of regulations made under subsection 19(1).
In French, lines 21 and 22 on page 14 would read as follows: c) l'administration et l'application des lois des Premières Nations ainsi que l'administration et l'application des règlements pris en vertu du paragraphe 19(1).
Mrs. Atwin, you had the floor to move it, so I'll pass it back to you.
Liberal
Jenica Atwin Liberal Fredericton, NB
I'll move the subamendment as read out by the chair. I can certainly do that again.
Really, it's just combining the amendment Ms. Idlout put forward, but keeping the spirit of the original paragraph (c) of that part of the bill. It's marrying them. I don't know if I need to explain that further. Again, it's containing a federal role in agreements and federal responsibilities, and it's anticipated to be aligned with first nations priorities.
I think that's so moved.