Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Nov. 25th, 2024

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

I'm still asking the same thing. In my mind, let's say there was a war, for example. That would be an example where extraordinary circumstances, perhaps, could prevent the government from meeting that funding responsibility because everything would be going toward the war effort.

Is that an example of how extreme it would have to be in order for it to not meet that “best efforts” threshold without it ending up in court, and for that responsibility and liability to be on the minister and on the Crown?

[Nelson Barbosa]

I think, read with other sections in this act—and there are sections that we haven't arrived at—“comparable services” is a significant piece. We have talked about the funding framework. The legislation proposes to develop a public-facing funding framework on “actual costs” to maintain and operate first nations water systems. That will be in the public vernacular. The minister, regardless of who that person is, must take action and move towards supporting the costs, comparable cost and actual cost, of water systems, which would be part of the tabling of this financial report.

It is an extremely high bar, and read with other elements of this legislation, particularly comparable services and funding agreements in the public sphere, it would create a significant kind of impetus to support funding through the appropriation cycle of Parliament.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much, Ms. Atwin.

Not seeing any other debate, why don't we go to a vote on the subamendment to PV-5.

(Subamendment agreed to: yeas 10; nays 1)

Is there any debate on PV-5 as amended?

Mr. Morrice.

[Mike Morrice, Green, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I just want to ask a question of the witnesses here, because I think the intention of this amendment from Ms. May was to establish a floor, a minimum, that would meet the obligations in clauses 31, 33 and 34. The committee has now just passed a subamendment that removes the floor and that simply has it say, “in a manner that meets the obligations”. I'm not sure that was the original intention of the amendment.

Maybe I'll turn to the officials. If it were to pass without “as a minimum”, what bearing does that have on the responsibilities of the government when it comes to providing funding and following through on their obligations in this act?

[Rebecca Blake]

I appreciate the question. I'll answer it a bit directly. It refers to section 34, which already includes “as a minimum”. The floor is already established. It's to ensure implementation of all those settlement agreement provisions, but also section 34, which already establishes that floor.

[Mike Morrice, Green, Kitchener Centre, ON]

I guess my interest is that I'm debating whether or not to withdraw the amendment now that it no longer has a minimum floor. I recognize that I might need unanimous consent to do that.

I'm looking to understand this from the officials. If it were to pass in its current form, as amended, does it increase, make no change or decrease the responsibility of the Government of Canada?

[Rebecca Blake]

There's no change, given the existing provisions in the bill.

[Mike Morrice, Green, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Okay. I'll leave it to be voted on. It looks like I might not get UC anyway to take it out, given some of the looks I'm getting, but it looks like in its new form it makes no change regardless.

Thank you, officials.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Is there further debate on PV-5 as amended?

I'm not seeing any. We'll move to a vote.

(Amendment as amended agreed to: yeas 10; nays 1 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

(Clause 26 as amended agreed to on division)

That takes us to clause 27, but we are past the time we had scheduled for the meeting today.

We have a lot of work that we need to get done on Bill C-61. We do have a long day scheduled for tomorrow, but I want to give members the opportunity to move to adjourn if they want to do so. We have a lot of things that we need to get to, so whatever we don't get to tonight will be more we'll have to get to tomorrow.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

I move that we adjourn.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

We'll vote on it.

(Motion agreed to: yeas 6; nays 5)

We will see everybody tomorrow at 10 a.m.

The meeting is adjourned.