Evidence of meeting #136 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was procurement.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
Thank you very much, Ms. Idlout.
That concludes our first round of questioning. We're going to move into the second round here.
First we'll go to Mr. Schmale for five minutes.
Conservative
Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Thank you very much to our witnesses for appearing. We always appreciate this testimony.
I didn't catch that last question from Ms. Idlout, but maybe I could ask you, Madam President, if Randy Boissonnault is currently a member of the MNA.
President, Otipemisiwak Métis Government
Our registry is confidential. It is part of our citizenship law within our Otipemisiwak Métis Government.
Conservative
Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON
Okay.
When we're talking about the MNA verifying eligibility for businesses claiming to be of Métis status, whether legitimate or otherwise, and they're trying to access the set-asides for indigenous contracts, are there checks and balances to ensure a fraud-free environment?
President, Otipemisiwak Métis Government
In order for Métis businesses to be listed on our Alberta MétisWorks database, they must have their Métis Nation of Alberta citizenship card. They've gone through the rigorous process that we've laid out tonight already.
December 9th, 2024 / 8:35 p.m.
Conservative
Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON
That's perfect. That's good to know.
Maybe you could potentially, if you care to, expand on what the MNA offers to its citizens to help with programs and services. Perhaps you could talk about navigating the various procurement opportunities or even about the complex application process.
President, Otipemisiwak Métis Government
As I had said when Lori asked her question about that, we actually just recently did two procurement workshops with Métis businesses that are registered on Alberta MétisWorks and we are working towards our own economic reconciliation strategy. Of course, we are working with Canada on a nation-to-nation basis and are at tables with Canada to talk about different funding we can access so that we can support our citizens when they are starting a business or when we are doing any kind of program when it comes to entrepreneurship,
We have some programming now. As I said earlier, we have Apeetogosan, which is our lending arm. Rupertsland Institute offers training and workshops for entrepreneurs, and we continue to expand all of those.
Conservative
Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON
I should have asked this off the top, but I did ask it of the ministers in the last round. I asked them if claiming indigenous status was wrong, and they agreed. I'm assuming you do as well.
What kind of hurt did it cause within your nation, knowing what Randy Boissonnault did and knowing the events that led up to his ousting from cabinet?
President, Otipemisiwak Métis Government
False claims of Métis ancestry most definitely harm our communities and stand to undermine our nationhood. We take these things very seriously. We take our registry very seriously and take our identity very seriously. We know who we are. We know who our citizens are, and we're proud of the registry that we have.
Conservative
Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON
Regarding the safeguards, if any, that the government put into place to protect against businesses or individuals falsely claiming indigenous identity in order to secure contracts that are set aside for indigenous peoples, do you think the government has taken enough action already to ensure that the list is as true as possible?
President, Otipemisiwak Métis Government
I think that if the government were to apply a simple standard of verification to its indigenous procurement processes, it would be able to ensure that opportunities that are for indigenous communities are going to those communities.
Conservative
Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON
Tell me a bit more about that measure. How do you see it playing out if it were to be implemented?
President, Otipemisiwak Métis Government
Our citizenship registry offers a model for how governments can establish clear and enforceable measures.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
I'm afraid, Mr. Schmale, that the time has elapsed there.
With that, we'll have to move on to our next questioner, Mr. McLeod. You have five minutes, please.
Liberal
Michael McLeod Liberal Northwest Territories, NT
Welcome to our witnesses. It's good to see a big delegation of indigenous visitors here in Ottawa.
When the Daniels case was concluded, I went to my father, who was already around 80 years old, and I told him, “Hey, the court case is done. We won.” He looked at me and said, “I don't really give a shit. I don't need the government to tell me who I am.” Those words stuck with me. I thought about it for a long time.
He talked about how people were divided, how Métis are divided all across the country into different categories and little boxes. Many people believe that it's a strategy by the government to keep the Métis down. If all the different families worked together in all the different provinces and were allowed to connect, we'd be a very powerful organization.
In the Northwest Territories, there are different classifications. They are called indigenous Métis. They're Métis who can trace their ancestry to the Métis scrip signing or the treaty signing, because some Métis took the treaty status. There are the non-indigenous Métis who moved in from another part of the country. There are Métis that just self-identify as Métis. There are the community acceptance Métis. They are people who lived amongst the Métis and became accepted by the community.
In my life, I started as a young kid as a half-breed. I became a Métis and was recognized as aboriginal. Now I'm indigenous, so I'm not sure if I'm climbing up or it's just a matter of more terms. If you want government to recognize you, it's not easy being recognized as a Métis. If you're a status Indian, there is the Indian Act membership list that is tracked. Babies are born or listed. The Métis don't have that kind of list.
Maybe I could get you to talk a bit about the differences. How hard is it to track who's on your list? How hard is it to sign people up? I know with us, we have to do enrolments. You have to trace your ancestry. We have to dig up family trees. We have to go back generations to make sure everybody who says who they are is actually who they are. It's not easy.
In some land claims, the negotiations only have one enrolment officer. It could take 10 years just to verify who they are. By that time, half of them have passed on, but you have to keep going. It's not an easy process.
Could you just touch on the verification process that you talked about, versus what the Indian Act provides?
President, Otipemisiwak Métis Government
As part of our process, individuals have to meet the national definition of “Métis” and submit an application with various documents, including a family tree, a birth certificate, identification, proof of registry and a source of documents showing biological connection to historic Métis ancestry, such as a scrip document, a baptismal certificate, a marriage certificate or death records and things like this.
Our registry is very robust, and we have amazing genealogists who work in our registry department. We have an amazing historical record of families that are connected within our nation, an amazing library of connections.
It is not an easy process to become a citizen of the Métis nation within Alberta. It can take months. It can take up to a year and sometimes even a little bit longer if we don't have records already, but we have more than 70,000 people registered as citizens of the Métis nation within Alberta, so our documents are very robust.
It's not an easy process, and we have lots of checks and balances. As I said in my opening remarks, our registry meets the Canadian Standards Association. We've gone through that process and have been audited by the Canadian Standards Association. You could come in—you can't, because it's very confidential, but I'm just saying this facetiously—and grab a file out of our registry and all of the documents would be there. It's verified citizenship.
Liberal
Liberal
Bloc
Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
You are justified in keeping the registry confidential. You don't have to disclose to the general public who your members are.
However, would the government still have access to the registry when deciding whether or not to award a contract to a company?
Who actually has access to the registry? Is it just you? Do third parties have access?
President, Otipemisiwak Métis Government
Under our Otipemisiwak Métis Government Citizenship Act, the registry itself is confidential. MétisWorks is entirely different. MétisWorks is a database of Métis-owned businesses that have already been verified. The owners of those businesses have already been verified as Métis citizens, and it is a public database.
Bloc
Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
From our perspective, how do we recognize an organization that you recognize as legitimate? Obviously, I believe that first nations are part of the solution and that a registry that may be created by and for them must include recognized Métis. However, I would like to get your perspective as to how it can work if everything is confidential.
How can we ensure that you won't recognize fake Métis and that they won't have access to a contract, if the general public doesn't have access to that list?
What are the checks and balances?
President, Otipemisiwak Métis Government
If they have a Métis Nation of Alberta citizenship card, they're Métis. They've gone through the process that we've outlined several times tonight.
As I said in answering your last question, the MétisWorks database is our database that we own. We have verified that the Métis businesses that are on that database are owned by Métis Nation of Alberta citizens.
Bloc
Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
Our role is to verify whether public funds are being properly invested. How can we fulfill our role? Do we simply ask people who received the contract to show their card? Is that what you're recommending?
