Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Dec. 10th, 2024

[Lorne Pelletier]

Yes, that's a consistent practice for us, in that we value the privacy and integrity of our citizens.

[Anna Gainey, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

Can you describe for us a little bit the process then of gaining citizenship? You've outlined the requirements. How long does it take on average to go through this process, and what does it look like? Do you have a queue, per se, of applicants? Is there a certain percentage who are not accepted on a regular basis?

[Lorne Pelletier]

Thank you for the follow-up question.

There is currently a queue. Since signing our Manitoba Métis Self-Government Recognition and Implementation Agreement in 2021, there's been keen interest. Of course, under that agreement, the Manitoba Métis Federation represents Red River Métis, regardless of where they live in the world. That's drawn an extreme amount of interest from citizens who are residing elsewhere.

In terms of process, there's a rigorous process of application and review, with substantiating documentation, genealogies, reference to scrip etc. Those are typically done through a third party like the St. Boniface Historical Society, as one example.

From there, on the point of acceptance, through our governance, we have over 100 locals that are really the grassroots, the foundation of our government. Those who are applying for citizenship are connected into those locals, or there's a component part in our process whereby they meet with and are supported by the locals in their application process. That is one means by which we identify connectivity to community.

[Anna Gainey, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

As you said, there are people who identify or have citizenship but who don't live, perhaps, in Manitoba. Would that be true of the businesses in your directory, as well? Do you have businesses that meet those requirements but that are, perhaps, located in different parts of the country?

[Lorne Pelletier]

Yes, we do. It's a very small number at this point. I could quickly check and get you the number. It's a small percentage of the businesses.

We do include businesses that are outside of Manitoba on our registry as long as they have validated citizenship with the Manitoba Métis Federation.

[Anna Gainey, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

I think you said that you currently have 776 businesses in your directory and that a small percentage of those are in the indigenous business directory. Is that correct? My understanding is that there's a gap.

[Lorne Pelletier]

Yes, that's correct. Less than 5% of our businesses are on the federal indigenous business directory.

[Anna Gainey, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

What is the gap, then? Are there one or two major things that are hampering those businesses from qualifying? What would you say is the main obstacle to having, say, all 776 of those businesses on the indigenous business directory?

[Lorne Pelletier]

Yes, it's an additional burden to businesses to run the process of the IBD. It's not that they're not meeting the criteria of the federal IBD; it's the onerous process that's there.

Again, as per my opening remarks, they're already in our recognized, verified, validated directory. To get into the federal directory is to run a gauntlet.

I'll give you an example. There's a Métis business that's engaged right now. We've facilitated the interactions with a prime contractor of the Government of Canada's defence contracts. It's 3 billion dollars' worth of contracts. It's a fantastic connection. The prime contractor is keenly interested in doing business with our Red River Métis business. As a result, that business has had to register on the federal IBD because that prime contractor has that 5% obligation task on. It's been at it for six weeks to essentially get recognized on the federal IBD.

Quite frankly, it would be very simple if there was just an acknowledgement that the business registered in our directory, which is verified and validated, is recognized. In that case, we would have just saved that Red River Métis business owner a whole bunch of time, energy and money.

[Anna Gainey, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

Thank you for explaining that. I think that's a very good point. I appreciate your sharing that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much, Ms. Gainey.

Mr. Lemire, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Pelletier, I would first like to congratulate you on the historic agreement that the Red River Métis signed a few days ago.

Does the recent treaty signed with the Government of Canada, the only modern treaty signed between the federal government and the Métis to date, finally identify who is Métis in Canada?

[Lorne Pelletier]

Mr. Lemire, thank you for your question and for recognizing the historic event we have just experienced.

It has been 10 days, and we still feel much pride for signing the treaty. So I really appreciate the question.

The answer is yes, absolutely. The treaty talks about defining who we are as people and who we are as a nation. Once again, it reinforces what already exists in our government's Constitution.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Could the fact that the definition of Métis is included in a treaty set a precedent? Could that help clarify the situation for other people who claim to be Métis elsewhere in Canada?

[Lorne Pelletier]

In fact, this treaty is focused on us Red River Métis, but it could help others, because it sheds some light on the situation of the Métis.

Furthermore, the very definition of a Métis person set out in the treaty could help better inform Canadians about who we are. As Mr. Leroux says, to really be Métis, it is not enough to just be able to say, for example, that your third great-grandfather was a member of a first nation.

We have been present as a people for over 200 years, with our own policies, our own society, our own culture and our language, among other things. The treaty therefore helps to affirm a reality. It may provide some clarification that might be helpful.

I cannot comment on case law, but at least it could be used to inform people.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

[ Inaudible—Editor ] of this study, let me ask you about the Métis National Council.

First, what definition does it use? Second, what is the difference between their definition and yours? Finally, should the governance of the Métis National Council be investigated?

[Lorne Pelletier]

The first question was about definitions. It is no secret that, in 2021, we made the decision to withdraw from the Métis National Council, because other organizations that were part of it did not meet the definition. That is the approach we have chosen to take to make people understand that there is no flexibility when it comes to identity. The definition of “Métis” was established in 2002, more than 20 years ago, but some organizations did not comply. I do not think it is up to me to tell you who uses a particular definition.

As we know, there is an integrity crisis among various Métis organizations across the country. I will say it again for the benefit of committee members: We know who we are. It is clearly defined in our constitution, and it is clear in our community. We, the Red River Métis, know who we are.

As for the question about having an investigation, I will let other people decide whether it is necessary or not.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

You talked about ethnogenesis as an important aspect of recognizing the Red River Métis. Your history and culture are echoed by several self-identified Métis groups.

How do you explain these identity claims based on vague genealogical traces of the Métis Nation of Ontario?

[Lorne Pelletier]

Thank you for your question.

We certainly have concerns beyond the use of Métis identity.

For example, let us look of our flag, which displays the symbol of infinity. It was first brandished at the victory of the Battle of the Grenouillère, which took place in Winnipeg. This battle was not fought in Ontario, Quebec or eastern Canada; it was fought here in Manitoba. Our flag was first displayed to the public in 1816.

People talk about Louis Riel as chief or the use of Red River carts, but let us not forget that these are symbols that come from us. This is the history of our people. We are concerned about the use of our culture and history by organizations that present themselves as Métis organizations.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Pelletier.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much, Mr. Lemire.

Next, we'll go to Ms. Idlout for six minutes.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

Qujannamiik. Thank you, Chair.

I will direct my first set of questions to Mr. Leroux.

A quick search of you online shows the lengths to which non-indigenous people and collectives are willing to go to discredit and deny the truth. Can you reflect on what pressures you experience to stop undertaking your work and why it's so important to keep fighting for what's right?

[Darryl Leroux]

Sure. Yes. A number of organizations definitely oppose my research. They have tried get events cancelled that I was speaking at, at various universities. Five different organizations that do not represent indigenous people filed a complaint with a federal funding agency that I took several months to have to respond to about my research. They were trying to get the funding agency to agree to no longer fund any of my research. That didn't happen, but there are constant efforts to put barriers or obstacles in front of individuals—not just me, but others as well—who do this type of research.

I think I brought up a little bit in my initial talking points about how lots of whistle-blowers in the federal government and other levels of government institutions, primarily indigenous women, come forward about people who are involved in indigenous identity fraud. They are often the ones who are forced out and forced to leave, because the people who are accused of making false claims, or who actually have been shown to have made false claims, often grow quite hostile. Their whole careers depend on this level of fraud.

Yes, sometimes it can be quite difficult to navigate some of these politics, I suppose you would say, but there's a growing group of scholars working specifically on this issue in relation to all kinds of different agreements that are being signed and stuff around employment. Now we're talking about procurement.

I think for the most part, as you can see just on the ground, there's a lot of support from first nations, Inuit people and also Métis to put a stop to this indigenous identity fraud.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

Could you expand on why it's so important to keep fighting for what's right?

[Darryl Leroux]

Sure. As I kind of laid out, indigenous people have fought for decades to have even just minimal representation at tables, whether at different public institutions or with the federal or provincial governments. To see that many of the opportunities, if not most of them, are going to non-indigenous people who are pretending to be indigenous....

That aspect of the struggle, of really having to work hard to have even basic representation, is something that we're not meeting as a society. We have decided to oftentimes hire the people we're most comfortable with and to not question their claim: They're a lot like us, as non-indigenous people, and we feel more comfortable having them around us and working for us.

There's an aspect of racism at work here that is very troubling. I think there are ways we can address it, but it doesn't seem like there's the political will at the moment to address it in any fundamental way.