Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Dec. 10th, 2024

[Brian Doxtator]

We have common reception. We're a small company. We can't afford to have a receptionist, so we use a common reception to accept packages or accept mail and then deliver it to our suite.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

It's interesting that you describe yourself as a small company, because you've gotten over $200 million in contracts from the federal government.

I looked at the websites for these two companies located at the same location, PureLogicIT and Pure Spirit. I noticed that the leadership team of PureLogicIT is Coreen and David Bouchard. The leadership team at Pure Spirit is also Coreen and David Bouchard, plus you. Are Coreen and David Bouchard indigenous?

[Brian Doxtator]

No, they are not.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

The principal contact for contracts for the government, as listed online for Pure Spirit, is Coreen Bouchard.

Mr. Doxtator, is that it looks like these two individuals who own one IT company, who are not indigenous, set up another IT company that shares a reception with and operates out of the same location as you but is able to identify as indigenous because you've become a partner in this company. It is effectively operating in lockstep, effectively as one company. Is that a fair assessment?

[Brian Doxtator]

I don't believe so.

I purchased my share of the company in January 2024. It was owned by another indigenous person—I purchased it from them—who started the company I think in 2014 or thereabouts—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

What does Pure Spirit do that's different from what PureLogicIT does?

[Brian Doxtator]

Pure Spirit is strictly an IT reseller. We take specifications on public tenders for equipment. We purchase equipment from suppliers that we have relationships with. It can be HP, Lenovo, GTAC. We supply that equipment. We don't do services. We don't do any subcontracting. Effectively, we buy equipment and sell to the government.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

You're a reseller. Would you say the process of reselling sometimes benefits PureLogicIT? Are you reselling goods or services from PureLogicIT?

[Brian Doxtator]

No, we are not.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Not ever, even though you share the same suite number.

[Brian Doxtator]

No, we're not selling any services from PureLogicIT.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

By the way, I'm not suggesting that you've in any way broken any rules. This maybe raises some questions about the structures that exist. You have two people who run one IT company, and they were involved in starting another IT company that's indigenous-owned at the same location. It's not obvious to me how these companies, outside of the provisions for set-asides, would operate as two separate companies.

I looked again at the website for PureLogicIT, and I can see that in the background of the photos of Coreen and David Bouchard, the Pure Spirit logo is visible, which suggests that these companies are completely joined at the hip. You wouldn't normally stand in front of the logo of a different company for your photo on another company's website. Does that seem a bit odd to you?

[Brian Doxtator]

I'm not sure whether they have used common pictures between websites or not.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

It's just that this is not a small company. Pure Spirit got over $200 million in contracts, and it's likely that being able to identify as indigenous-owned was helpful in that. However, two non-indigenous people who own a substantial minority stake in that company also own another IT company at the same location.

I think Canadians would find this odd. Don't you?

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

I'm sorry, Mr. Doxtator. Could you provide just a brief response? We're over time.

[Brian Doxtator]

I don't think it's odd for any indigenous business to start with partners who have capital to help them. That $200 million was over I don't know how many years. I bought the company in January this year, but I don't know how many years that was over.

I know from our business this year that the margins are very thin. We're working on less than a 5% gross profit margin to support the organization. In order to start up, one of the barriers is access to capital, which drives a lot of indigenous entrepreneurs to partner with others who have capital.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much, Mr. Genuis.

We're moving now to Mr. Hanley for six minutes.

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Thank you to all of our witnesses for appearing.

Mr. Obed, I'll begin with you. It's really good to see you here.

There have been some really significant events for Inuit Nunangat lately. An interesting one, which I attended just yesterday, was the celebration for Yukon University becoming the 97th university addition to Universities Canada, a really big deal for a northern university, the first university north of 60. At that event, they reflected on the recent announcement of steps towards having an Inuit Nunangat university.

I am interested in what it means to have a post-secondary institution based in Nunavut, not just for reconciliation, but also for economic reconciliation and for indigenous opportunities. I wonder if you could comment on that.

[Natan Obed]

It was a wonderful milestone last week. We announced at 100 Wellington that we were well along the path towards having an Inuit Nunangat university. We hope to open the doors to the first cohort of students in 2030. We certainly have a long way to go between now and then.

In our imagination of the university, it will be a particular opportunity for a particular type of student. The institution will be Inuit-led. There will be a focus on Inuit society and culture, and there will be a holistic nature to delivering a post-secondary educational program.

We understand that graduates, no matter if they go to law school, are doing a Bachelor of Education for teachers or are in a nursing program.... Inuit across Inuit Nunangat have used their degrees to do any number of different things: go into politics, as Ms. Idlout did; start their own businesses; or contribute to their communities in many different ways. We hope that graduates will have a foundation that spans from community-based interests to social interests and economic interests.

We know that the natural resource sector is a large component of the Inuit Nunangat economy. We also know that we want to grow small businesses and grow private entrepreneurship. We have tremendous artists who want to be business people as well. We hope this university can provide a much greater foundation for success in whatever the graduates want to do, but specifically within Inuit Nunangat.

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

The other recent significant event was Minister Joly's announcement of the new codeveloped Arctic foreign policy last Friday. You spoke at that event. I was pleased to witness it.

We saw some rather disparaging remarks from the leader of the official opposition, who likened having a diplomatic presence in the north to having a diplomat speak to Santa Claus, which seemed to be a gross oversight of the need for that presence. You spoke very well to that.

I wonder if you could talk about the importance of a diplomatic presence in the circumpolar north and about the presence of ambassadors, which go over and above just the defence aspects. We're talking about Arctic security and Arctic sovereignty and about how important it is to have a diplomatic presence in addition to a defence presence.

[Natan Obed]

I understand that in partisan politics, there are jabs at either side and you make hay with whatever it is in the moment. I don't want to weigh in on the cacophony of noise within that space, but as our Arctic space is so misunderstood, or not understood at all, I see an opportunity to talk about the complexity of it.

We have foundational partners, as in nation-states, especially Denmark and the United States, which share our borders on the east and west within the Arctic, and we have diplomacy with those nation-states and all other Arctic states, whether they be Nordic states or the other European countries that do a lot of business within the Arctic. It's imperative for us to have strong relationships and strong ties with them.

As a country, as we consider the implementation of the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples and the mobility of indigenous peoples between nation-states where there are constructed borders that were not our own, it's important to have consulates and diplomacy between nation-states. That allows for the increased mobility of humans and the ability for us to build economic strength together from an east-to-west connection across Inuit Nunaat, or the Inuit homeland, rather than having an explicitly north-to-south environment.

There are many reasons for us—outside of the very obvious reasons of Arctic security and defence—to have very strong ties with our allies. They expect that of us, of the country, and we as Inuit expect it of our nation-state as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much, Mr. Hanley.

Mr. Lemire, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Obed, you were already denouncing Inuit identity fraud by Métis groups in 2021.

What are the consequences of the government's inaction on this issue for your communities?

[Natan Obed]

There are many different threats to the space that Inuit have carved out with Canada as a nation-state, and we've worked over the past 50 to 60 years to create, to negotiate, agreements with Canada through modern treaties. All of those processes took generations of work and were exhaustive, but we have now settled treaties among all Inuit Nunangat regions. The idea that there are new Inuit collectives that only became Inuit collectives in 2012, and that previously there were Métis collectives that were only Métis collectives starting in 1984, threatens the security and foundation of our relationship with Canada and our relationship with provinces and territories.

Just like when businesses talk about the security they need to do business and the risk aversion they have toward going into unsettled spaces, we need security to ensure that in the deals we make with this country and in the space we have for supporting health care, education, language and economic development, there aren't always going to be new players that didn't go through the same process we did and don't have the same support.

The Assembly of First Nations, the Métis National Council and Inuit Tapiriit Kanatimi have all said that they do not recognize the NCC as an Inuit collective, and the MNC has never recognized the former Métis group in Labrador as Métis. The Government of Canada is going in contrast to the express decisions of constitutionally recognized indigenous peoples—all section 35 rights-holding peoples—and it is a really frustrating thing to have to expend our time and energy on trying to fight these newly indigenous peoples in the very same space that we've carved out over 60 years.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Currently, the Canadian Council for Aboriginal Business, or CCAB, gives us the impression that it is going beyond its initial mandate by acting as a direct competitor to indigenous organizations, such as the National Aboriginal Capital Corporations Association, or NACCA.

Why is CCAB involved in this conversation? It boggles the mind. Despite our intervention yesterday, the government seems to be turning a deaf ear.

Is CCAB an indigenous organization, in your opinion? Do you know of any companies that hover around the government and serve as advisers to the government on procurement program reform?