Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Oct. 3rd, 2022

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

[Member spoke in Inuktitut as follows:]

ᐋ, ᒫᓐᓇᐅᔪᖅ ᑲᑎᒪᔨᕋᓛᖑᔪᑎᒍᑦ ᑲᑎᒪᔾᔪᑎᖃᕋᑦᑕ ᒫᓐᓇ ᑐᑭᓯᓇᓱᒃᓱᑕ ᑐᐊᕕᕐᓇᖅᑐᓕᕆᓂᐅᕐ ᐸᒃᓇᐅᑎᖏᓐᓂᒃ ᒥᒃᓵᓄᑦ, ᑖᒃᑯᐊ, ᐋ, ᐃᓕᓐᓂᐊᕆᐊᖅᐸᑦᑐᑯᓗᐃᑦ, ᐋ, ᐸᕐᓇᐅᑎᒋᔭᐅᑦᑎᐊᖅᓯᒪᒐᓗᐊᖅᐸᑦᑕᖅᑲᐃ ᑐᐊᕕᕐᓇᖅᑐᖃᕐ-ᓂᕈᓂ.

[Inuktitut text interpreted as follows:]

At this time, this committee is meeting about understanding preparedness measures. Are there any emergency preparedness measures for these children who go to school?

[English]

[Chief Sarah Diabo]

Yes, they do drills and they have things on the bus should anything happen. If they get in a car accident or things like that, they have communication with the central dispatch as well as with the school itself. They do evacuation drills and they do bus drills, because a long time ago we did have a bus accident, so that's one of the priorities they do have, along with fire drills. We are really well prepared for active shooter scenarios and things like that. We do all those kinds of drills with the school.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

[Member spoke in Inuktitut as follows:]

ᐋ, ᑭᖑᓪᓕᕐᒥ ᐊᐱᕆᓂᐊᖅᐸᑦᓯ ᖃᓄᕐᓕ, ᐋ, ᐊᓯᔾᔩᒋᐊᒃ-ᑲᓐᓂᕈᓐᓇᕋᔭᖅᐱᓯ ᓲᕐᓗ ᐅᖄᓂᖅᑲᐅᒐᓗᐊᖅᓱᓂ ᑖᓐᓇ ᐱᖃᑖ, ᐋ, ᐊᓯᔾᔩᒋᐊᕈᓐᓇᕋᔭᕐᒪᖔᑦ, ᐋ, ᐋᒻ, ᑯᐊᕐᓐᐅᐊᓪ ᑖᓐᓇ ᐃᔾᔪᐊᖅᑕᐅᖁᔭᐅᓪᓗᓂ ᑭᓯᐊᓂ ᑖᒃᑯᐊ ᐃᓕᓐᓂᐊᖅᑐ-ᑯᓗᓐᓄᑦ ᓴᐳᔾᔭᐅᑦᓯᐊᖁᓪᓗᒋᑦ ᖃᓄᖅ ᐊᓯᔾᔩᒋᐊᖁᔨᒐᔭᖅᐱᑦ ᖃᓄᖅ ᒐᕙᒪᑐᖃᒃᑯᓐᓄᑦ ᑐᒃᓯᕋᒐᔭᖅᐱᑦ ᑖᒃᑯᐊ ᐃᑲᔪᖅᑕᐅ-ᒋᐊᒃᑲᓐᓂᖁᓪᓗᒋᑦ, ᑖᒃᑯᐊ ᐃᓕᓐᓂᐊᖅᑐᑯᓗᐃᑦ.

[Inuktitut text interpreted as follows:]

If you were to change the Cornwall example in order to protect the school children, how would you make changes? What kinds of changes would you like to see from the federal government in order to get more support for the school children?

[English]

[Chief Sarah Diabo]

I would like to see the Canadian customs moved from Cornwall, because even if you're on Cornwall Island, or if I'm coming from my district and I have to go to the doctor's on Cornwall Island, I still have to go to Cornwall, turn around, report, come back through and go to the school.

I would just like the port authority to be moved by the U.S. customs or have something in place like that, because in order to go from one district to the other, I still have to go from Quebec to Ontario and I still have to go report, even though I'm still in Akwesasne.

It's the same thing with the children. You still have to go to Cornwall, come back and go to the island. Putting it next to the U.S. customs is one solution.

[Chief Dwayne Thomas]

I think there's another thing we have to look at. Prior to becoming chief, I spent 16 years as the transportation supervisor for our school board, and our geography, again, is a big issue, because there's only one way on and off Cornwall Island. We have an international bridge going south and the low-level bridge going north, but if either one of those bridges gets taken out, we're stuck.

It's the same for the district of Kana:takon: There's one road in and out, and that's it. It's the same with Tsi Snaihne. There are two roads in and out, and that's it. We don't get enough funding to help maintain those roads, number one, but we need to have alternative roads outside of the ones we have now so we can be better prepared.

The customs are a hindrance, absolutely, but the fact that we only have one way in and out to our districts is, I think, a bigger hindrance.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you very much.

We have an opportunity for a shortened second round if members wish to avail themselves of it. It will be three minutes for Conservatives and Liberals, and one and a half minutes for the Bloc and the NDP.

I'm going to turn to Mr. Shields for three minutes.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I appreciate the witnesses today.

In terms of the coordination you do and what you're talking about, I could ask the political question: Of the two countries, the two provinces, the two counties, which is the easiest one to deal with? However, I know you're not going to answer that. You've developed a partnership and you know how to make it work, which is incredible.

I'm going to go to Mr. King about something you brought up in your testimony, because I think it relates to you as well.

Mr. King, we were talking about water. In my riding, I had two examples. In a previous one, we were working with indigenous people and we had to adapt in dealing with the flooding situations occurring in my riding from the two major rivers. In yours, what I want to get to—and you didn't talk about it much, but you did mention it—is the mental challenge of constantly moving people from their territory to an isolated setting in an urban area. What does that create, and how can we resolve it? What's your recommendation?

[Lucas King]

It's huge. The mental, emotional and spiritual impacts of evacuation from your home are absolutely massive.

One of the biggest issues is because of the different jurisdictions that Akwesasne is dealing with. In Treaty No. 3, we're in Manitoba and Ontario, and then water flows in from Minnesota as well, and there are relations in Minnesota and Manitoba.

Actually, the choice of many of our communities is to head west towards a larger Anishinabe nation, to Winnipeg and Manitoba, and that's more like home base. What happens right now is that those emotional, spiritual and mental impacts are actually increased, because we can only do evacuation funding in Ontario and we have to move folks further away instead of making a close drive to, say, Winnipeg, where many people have relationships and family members.

The evacuation piece speaks to our preparedness and better regulating water and being better prepared so that we don't need to evacuate, but in the instance of evacuation, we need to have protocols in place that allow for that to happen to somewhere where that space is as comfortable as possible for those who are being evacuated and everything is being done for them to return home as soon as possible as well.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

What you're saying in terms of adapting is that we need to do something that's different from evacuation.

[Lucas King]

Yes. We need to be more prepared for evacuation. We need to build up and have better access in terms of roadways, right? If you have only one access spot to a community and that gets flooded out, your access to food and medical help is taken away. We need to have better access roadways, better communication in flooding events and better resources prepared prior to flooding events.

That comes to those strategies of water regulation, early notices and making sure that we have food, water and accessibility to everything in a community so that we don't have to evacuate. Then, in the instance of an evacuation, we have to make sure that it's the safest and most comfortable space as possible in that area.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you.

We'll now go to you, Mr. McLeod, for three minutes.

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to everyone who has presented today.

There have been very interesting presentations. It points to some of the challenges in the indigenous communities when it comes to emergencies.

My question is for Treaty 3.

I listened with real interest. I come from the Northwest Territories. We have two reserves, but most of our communities are indigenous communities, and we have a number of different local governments. We have the Indian bands and the Métis councils. Some communities have the Inuit councils. Then we have the municipal government and the Government of the Northwest Territories, and then, when it comes to emergencies, the federal government has a role to play.

It takes a lot of co-operation. In some cases, there are alliances, and in other cases there are co-operation agreements that have been signed so that everybody knows their role. If there's a mix-up, lives could be lost, and if you're not sure who's handling what, it becomes very concerning when it comes to infrastructure and other properties, and there could be loss of life.

I'm aware that some provinces, such as B.C., have moved to trilateral agreements to ensure coordination between first nations and the federal and provincial levels of government. I'd like to ask if the representative for Treaty 3 thinks that having a trilateral agreement and arrangement in Ontario would also be beneficial.

[Lucas King]

Yes, I think that would be hugely beneficial.

I think the other side of it is that it may not even be trilateral. We could even talk quadrilateral because of the portion of Treaty 3 that is in Manitoba as well. We could make sure that all of those jurisdictions are at the table when we talk about emergency management and the resources and planning that need to go into it. An agreement between the Anishinaabe Nation in Treaty 3, Manitoba, Ontario and the feds would definitely be a milestone in terms of working together that way.

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

My next question is for the Mohawks of Akwesasne.

I really had to try to sort it out in my head to follow the number of different jurisdictions in your community. It's a split community that's in two countries, two counties and two provinces.

I'm wondering, when it comes to a national emergency, who declares a state of emergency. Is it the chief who does that?

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Could we have a quick response, please? We're running out of time.

[Chief Sarah Diabo]

It depends on where the emergency is. It could be the emergency management office at the tribe or it could be the emergency measures office at the Mohawk council.

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

Okay. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you very much.

Mrs. Gill, you have a minute and a half.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to quickly address Chief Thomas and Chief Diabo.

First, I want to tell you that we know how complex and unique the Akwesasne situation is. I would echo Chief Diabo's comments that perhaps the committee could go there and get a better understanding of what's going on.

If you wish, you can conclude by specifying what would be most important to you with respect to emergency situations. You can also send us any additional comments or ideas that you would like to see highlighted in our report that our committee could make recommendations about.

Thank you.

[Chief Sarah Diabo]

My wish list would be to have continuing funding so that we can provide more equipment and training of our people to be better responders, as well a large unified public safety building and one central dispatch unit.

It's just funding for the public safety building, training, equipment and PPE.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Mrs. Gill.

Ms. Idlout, you have 90 seconds.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

I want to ask my question to Lucas King.

First of all, congratulations on the anniversary of the signing of Treaty 3.

I'm interested in the PowerPoint slide that you sent us, which is called “Reconciling Sovereignties in Treaty #3”. I wonder if you could quickly explain how child protection, just as an example, could be explained by the slide you sent us.

Qujannamiik.

[Lucas King]

Totally, and I will do my best to do it as quickly as possible as well.

What you see in the slides are two parallels of governance. One is the Anishinaabe Nation in Treaty 3 and the other is western governance systems, in that instance harmonized through the signing of Treaty 3.

What most often happens when we talk about, say, child protection or emergency management working “in partnership” with Crown entities is that they say they'll fund this work to do it this way and this is the way they expect it to be done. They provide the protocols by which it will be done, and it needs to be worked within that western track.

That is the issue. For child care, for example, it is the federal and provincial governments that are dictating how Anishnaabe children are being cared for. Really what we need to be looking at is how to harmonize those governance approaches so that it's actually the Anishnaabe Nation in Treaty 3 protocols and processes that are guiding child care, so that they are being cared for in a way that is culturally appropriate and safe and doesn't go back to policies around integration into a western parallel.

At the end of the day, when we talk about participation and inclusion of traditional knowledge and nations, we need to look at harmonization and operating in that treaty space, as opposed to just participating or trying to move one governance structure into another governance structure.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you very much. This brings our second panel to a close.

Thank you, Mr. King, for appearing before us today. Thank you to Chief Diabo and Chief Thomas for coming here from Akwesasne to answer our wide-ranging questions. We very much appreciate it.

With that, I will end panel number two.

I see that Mr. Badawey has his hand up.