Evidence of meeting #34 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was actually.
A video is available from Parliament.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau
Mr. Ross, the interpreter is saying that Ms. Idlout would like to ask you another question.
4:05 p.m.
NDP
Lori Idlout NDP Nunavut, NU
[Member spoke in Inuktitut, interpreted as follows:]
I'm sorry to stop you in the midst of your answer, but we have very little time.
I want to ask you, in your reserve, how many use their own language and how many practise their customs and traditions.
Do you have any numbers to validate the programs or anything of this kind?
[English]
4:05 p.m.
Member of the Legislative Assembly of British Columbia, Skeena
No, we don't, but our band council with its own revenues is now starting to fund cultural groups, dance groups and language groups. The problem is that our people have no interest in learning our language. The culture that was actually slowly being weakened over the last 50 years is slowly starting to go away now.
There's a push to reinvigorate the cultural side of things, the customs and the language, but I think it has to be in the context of the 21st century, because a lot of people are just trying to put food on the table.
I actually promoted my own vision of how to do this to gain interest, because with every language and culture program we started, it took about two weeks before everybody dropped out. I think we need a different approach.
4:05 p.m.
NDP
Lori Idlout NDP Nunavut, NU
[Member spoke in Inuktitut, interpreted as follows:]
How much time do I have left?
[English]
4:05 p.m.
NDP
Lori Idlout NDP Nunavut, NU
[Member spoke in Inuktitut, interpreted as follows:]
Thank you.
I think it is obvious that culture and languages have been lost.
Doesn't this call for reconciliation to revive the languages and cultural practices and traditions? Shouldn't there be more research done to see how much of the traditional languages and cultures have been lost due to residential schools and such?
Shouldn't there be something in place to monitor and to see what is needed to revive culture and language?
[English]
4:05 p.m.
Member of the Legislative Assembly of British Columbia, Skeena
Yes, there should be something in place, but to be frank, there's always been something in place to monitor culture and language. What I think is missing is incentive.
If you think about a 22-year-old single mom, she has enough on her plate. She can't go to language classes. The proposal I put was complete with incentives. Everybody has the right to save their language. It doesn't matter if you are Italian or Russian—I shouldn't have said Russian—or first nations. Everybody has that right, but who has the energy and the incentive to learn it?
There are a lot of people in my community who want to teach the language, but nobody shows up to class. I think we're missing incentive. I have actually dealt with that language and culture issue for the last 18 years. My proposal was close to getting approved before I stepped down as chief counsellor and ran as an MLA. I still believe we're missing incentive. Make it fun. Make it enjoyable. Make it lucrative.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau
Thank you, Mr. Ross.
We will have a shortened second round. We'll begin with Mr. Schmale, I believe, for five minutes.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON
Thank you very much, Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Ross, for appearing. It's always a pleasure listening to you speak.
I want to talk a bit about what you were talking about—economic reconciliation. In this context, I want to talk about the structure of this committee. The transitional board under Bill C-29 is appointed by the minister. This transitional board gets to decide how the subsequent committee will be formed. The next committee that's formed then sets the structure going forward for years and decades to come.
Right now there is no plan for the immediate future to put groups like the Native Women's Association or anyone even talking about economic reconciliation at that original table to set the plan going forward.
Harold Calla, who I'm sure you know—yes, you know him quite well—was in the committee just a few days ago. He said we need somebody at the table who wants to talk about economic reconciliation. Would you agree with Harold Calla's comments?
4:10 p.m.
Member of the Legislative Assembly of British Columbia, Skeena
Yes, I would—and Clarence Louie out of the Okanagan. A number of aboriginal leaders feel strongly that economic reconciliation not only lifts up first nations but also obviously lifts up the provinces and the country. The proof is out there.
In my community, for example, the economic reconciliation that we participated in not only made us one of the wealthiest bands in B.C., but it also, for some reason, got rid of the alcohol parties. I think a study should be made in that respect. Where did all the house parties go?
When I grew up, every weekend I knew of five or six houses that you could travel to, house to house to house, in one night. That's all gone. Instead, we have young aboriginals getting mortgages in their own right without depending on Indian Affairs or their band council. They're going on vacation. They're planning futures for their children.
To my mind, and from what I've experienced in the last 18 years, reconciliation is a buzzword. Without the concrete results of seeing somebody get off the welfare list, or seeing somebody get away from the idea of committing suicide or their children going to government care.... I keep coming back to a phrase I heard a long time ago: “This is Canada's shame; how do we fix it?” Well, government, you can't; if you could fix it, it would have been fixed long ago. If you're going to do something, then do something in partnership with first nations that can make their band councils—and, more importantly, their band members—independent.
If you want an example, come to my village, Kitamaat Village, B.C. I'll show you around.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON
I would love to see that, actually.
Speaking of the economic reconciliation piece, I believe it was in January that some criminals trespassed and did some pretty severe damage to the Coastal GasLink construction site, with major damage to vehicles and buildings, putting that project at risk. What does that do to those indigenous people who want to see that project succeed and see opportunity to create wealth and take opportunities like those you just mentioned—take vacations and start planning for the future for their children?
4:10 p.m.
Member of the Legislative Assembly of British Columbia, Skeena
It discourages first nations, especially the band members who don't want to take sides in that kind of argument. There were first nations on that job site that night, and they were scared. People were running around with axes and fireworks and flares and firing at them. It's not the first time this has happened. In the early LNG development days, the aboriginal workers who signed on to do the preliminary work for LNG development had their cars keyed and their tires flattened.
Even today, I'm called an “apple”. Do you know what that means? It means red skin on the outside and white on the inside. I'm not even red on the outside. I get called a sellout. I get called all kinds of things.
I think the objective is clear. If we want aboriginals to get away from the violence of poverty, then we have to think about doing something different. Right now there are a lot of silent majority first nations that agree with what I'm saying and doing. As a case in point, every first nation from Prince George to Kitimat, 22 first nations, signed on to LNG. They signed on to forestry agreements and mining agreements. They're doing it with the highest environmental standards in mind, but also to get their people away from the Indian Act and away from poverty.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON
Then if the structure of this committee is not done properly—Bill C-29 as written—and if we don't have someone at the table with economic reconciliation at the forefront, this could potentially slow down that piece of this whole puzzle, the reconciliation puzzle, and the ability for first nations communities to chart their own course.
4:15 p.m.
Member of the Legislative Assembly of British Columbia, Skeena
Without a doubt—
4:15 p.m.
Member of the Legislative Assembly of British Columbia, Skeena
Without a doubt, because that's what we're seeing in B.C. right now with UNDRIP. We're seeing it. Everything has slowed down, including 18 LNG projects. We're now down to one major project and three minors. We're seeing it on the ground.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Patrick Weiler Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Ross, I want to thank you making the trip out here to Ottawa and for the unique perspective you're bringing today.
You mentioned earlier in your testimony the concerns about making reconciliation political. I think it's something we all need to be very conscious of. The idea behind this body that's being contemplated here is that it will be independent, will be able to report back on progress in achieving the truth and reconciliation calls to action, and will have an action plan that the government will have to respond to each year to be able to demonstrate progress.
I was hoping you could give your opinion on the value of such a reporting-back function.
4:15 p.m.
Member of the Legislative Assembly of British Columbia, Skeena
It's hugely important, especially when we're talking about transparency and accountability, but what are the benchmarks? Will you be looking at unemployment levels, suicide levels, children in government care, people in prison? What will you be measuring?
If it's a measurement of government programs, we've been dealing with that for the last 50 or 100 years. It hasn't helped us. That's why I really encourage.... This is all based on experience. I lived the Indian Act experience. I lived the poverty life, and now I'm living a different life. My kids are living a different life. My grandkids have a future that I never could have imagined.
I do appreciate the reporting and that you're talking about this, but if you don't have hard objectives written into this, hard terms of reference, then the reporting will not benefit first nations on the ground. That leaves the question of who it is going to benefit.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Patrick Weiler Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC
That's a good point.
To follow up on that, the Truth and Reconciliation calls to action, the 94 of them, are the responsibility of not just the federal government; they're the responsibility of other orders of government and other organizations across Canada.
Of course you bring a unique perspective, being a sitting MLA in the provincial government. What role would you see for the provincial government in reporting to this body so that not just the federal government but also the provincial government would be held accountable for progress on reconciliation?
4:15 p.m.
Member of the Legislative Assembly of British Columbia, Skeena
That's a really good question.
For the most part, within the borders of a province, the province has full responsibility for addressing rights and title infringements, and there is an economic component that goes into addressing those. If a project crosses boundaries or gets into the ocean, then the federal government steps in. That's partly why I'm here. I want to know what the federal government can do in terms of easing the regulatory process for some of the projects we're talking about, specifically LNG.
On the reporting you're talking about, the reporting that is going to come from the province, I strongly urge you to ask for a report on how the negotiations are happening on the ground in terms of a Crown-first nation relationship in relation to rights and title infringements, including the economic component.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Patrick Weiler Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC
Absolutely.
Earlier you mentioned some concerns about the operations and track records of some of the government watchdogs in British Columbia. As we're contemplating setting up this particular body, what advice would you have for us to ensure that this body will be accountable and effective in terms of reaching its intended outcomes?
4:20 p.m.
Member of the Legislative Assembly of British Columbia, Skeena
I've been doing this job for about five years now, and the one thing that I really encourage myself to do is to be strong and to ask the tough questions and to say what people don't like to hear. What I talk about is not popular. I know I have a target on my back for what I say, because I'm not politically correct. I go straight to the point.
If you're going to do this, yes, you do need strong language, but you also need a strong champion to call out the lack of transparency and accountability or the lack of reporting thereof.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Patrick Weiler Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC
One of the things that distinguish our province from other provinces in the country is that we have a very wide variety of governance systems within indigenous communities. When we're thinking about the membership of this board, I'm wondering if you have advice on how to make sure we bring those different voices to bear so that it will be truly reflective of the diversity of indigenous experiences and governments across the country.