Evidence of meeting #36 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was language.
A video is available from Parliament.
5 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau
Ms. Tshernish, could you leave a little time for Chief Piétacho, since there is only a minute and a half left?
October 27th, 2022 / 5 p.m.
General Manager, Institut Tshakapesh
Yes. I'm sorry.
[Witness spoke in Innu.]
5 p.m.
Innu Nation
[Witness spoke in Innu.]
[English]
Thank you, Ms. Gill.
It is very difficult for me to express my emotions in my second language, because it would be intense in my language.
Having grown up in the 1950s and 1960s, I was part of the second wave, if we can put it that way. Children were taken while they were playing and having fun, and they went away to an unknown place.
I just want to remind you that I am a survivor, a former residential school student, and maybe an elder soon. I am very interested in there being people to represent us at the national level. As you know, we have our own language and we have the second language. We also have elders. One of our elders is over 91 years old. She saw most of her 18 children, if not all her children, taken away to the residential school. I just want to remind you that the elders are important to us. This is crucial. As well, regarding women, we often talk about intergenerational consequences. The disappearances and murders are part of the sadness felt in our communities, in our nations.
I don't want to speak for too long, but we would be grateful if you make sure there is better representation. Also, things have to be done. There must not be just discussions, as is still the case.
5 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau
Thank you, Chief Piétacho.
I am now going to give the floor to Ms. Idlout, for six minutes.
Ms. Idlout, you have the microphone.
5 p.m.
NDP
Lori Idlout NDP Nunavut, NU
[Member spoke in Inuktitut, interpreted as follows:]
Thank you, everyone. I thank each and every one of you for your testimonies. You came from far away to speak here, because what you have to say is very important.
Chief Jean-Charles Piétacho, I hear you and I love you.
I will go straight to my question, since my time is limited.
First, I want to pose a question to Mr. Nungak.
If we're going to have a strong national council for reconciliation, will our rights as indigenous people be taken into consideration and addressed...for their importance? Can a study be done to see whether our organizations are supported in this bill?
[English]
No, sorry; I can't hear you.
It's a basic question. I feel that Bill C-29 doesn't talk enough about allowing the national reconciliation council to monitor whether indigenous rights are being protected. I wonder if you agree that perhaps this council should also ensure indigenous rights are indeed being protected. Is there room for that kind of monitoring to happen in this reconciliation council?
5:05 p.m.
As an Individual
[Witness spoke in Inuktitut, interpreted as follows:]
First of all, when you are meeting in this meeting, I am so happy and really proud to hear my language being spoken here because you have to hear our language too.
[English]
I'll try to answer that question by talking about two things.
One is the matter of the extinguishment and surrender of indigenous rights, which was a condition of our signing the James Bay agreement in 1975. The Cree of James Bay and the Inuit of northern Quebec were absolutely helpless about that precondition. We had nowhere to go. We could not go to the Supreme Court to prevent this terrible extinguishment and surrender. This totally destroyed the harmony amongst the Inuit of northern Quebec. The Government of Canada and the Government of Quebec used that as a sledgehammer, as a precondition for any benefits for the Cree and Inuit to be put in a formal agreement.
About 15 years after that, the Government of Canada hired a judge named Hamilton to study it and look for alternatives to extinguishment and surrender. The search was not serious enough to find a solution. Something like a national council for reconciliation could have done nothing but be helpful to finding a solution suitable not just for the indigenous parties but for governments in Canada. It is a difficult, terrible condition that we've had to live with since.
That's one example of something that can be examined in a serious search for a solution.
The second example is that I took part in the first ministers conferences of the 1980s, where the main goal of indigenous parties in that process was begging Canada's provinces, territories and the Government of Canada for the recognition of an inherent right to self-determination. We couldn't breach the fortresses of colonialism on that question. The last first ministers conference in 1987 ended with abject failure to find anything of the sort, although the governments were willing to recognize a contingent right, which means that by their good mercies and with their being the source of it, a right may be recognized.
We were pursuing a right that pre-existed the formation of Canada. That ended in failure. Then, 31 years later, on Valentine's Day—February 14, 2018—I woke up to watch on television the Prime Minister of Canada stand up in Parliament and recognize the indigenous peoples' inherent right to self-government.
I don't know what happened between the failure of 1987 and the Prime Minister's statement affirming such a right in 2018. I think less time would have elapsed if something like a national council of reconciliation addressed important issues like that to find solutions for them, instead of waiting for the Prime Minister to get up on the right side of his bed that morning and recognize the right.
That's my point.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau
Thank you very much, Ms. Idlout. We have gone over time.
That brings this panel to a close.
I would like to thank again our witnesses today, Dr. Marie Wilson, former commissioner of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission; and Mr. Zebedee Nungak.
I'd like to thank Marjolaine Tshernish, general manager of the Institut Tshakapesh and, lastly, Chief Jean‑Charles Piétacho.
Thank you for opening your hearts to us and expressing your feelings about Bill C‑29, which is under consideration. We appreciate it very much.
We will suspend for a moment as we prepare for our next panel.
Now, members, we're going to resume very quickly, because our witnesses are ready. I'm sorry to rush things a bit, but we have to get on with our program.
I would like to first of all welcome the witnesses who will be appearing on the second panel.
We have Melissa Mbarki.
She is a policy analyst and outreach co‑ordinator for the Indigenous Policy Program at the Macdonald‑Laurier Institute.
We have Chief Willie Sellars, Williams Lake First Nation, by video conference. We also have Okalik Eegeesiak, as an individual, also by video conference.
Welcome to our three witnesses today. In case you weren't watching the first hour, you will each be given time to make a five-minute opening statement, after which we will go to questions.
Without further ado, I invite Melissa Mbarki to start us off with a five-minute opening statement.
I don't see Ms. Mbarki. Is she with the group?
5:10 p.m.
The Clerk of the Committee Ms. Vanessa Davies
She was. I don't know where she went. Let me see if tech can reach out to her.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau
While you're doing that, I'm going to pass the microphone to Chief Willie Sellars if he is ready to give his five-minute opening statement.
Mr. Sellars, are you willing to start it off?
5:10 p.m.
Chief Willie Sellars Williams Lake First Nation
Yes.
I have never presented to the committee, so is it an opening statement with regard to who I am and where I come from that we're looking for today?
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau
Well, you have an opportunity, Chief, to make a five-minute opening statement if there are specific things you want us to be aware of with respect to Bill C-29. This is just to set the table if you choose to do so. After all of the witnesses have spoken, we will be going to a question period.
5:15 p.m.
Williams Lake First Nation
Melissa can go first, please. I see her there.
5:15 p.m.
Melissa Mbarki Policy Analyst and Outreach Coordinator, Indigenous Policy Program, Macdonald-Laurier Institute
Yes, I am, and I can start.
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
5:15 p.m.
Policy Analyst and Outreach Coordinator, Indigenous Policy Program, Macdonald-Laurier Institute
Thank you for allowing me to be here today to speak.
I grew up on the Muskowekwan First Nation located in Saskatchewan. The residential school on my reserve was operating from 1889 to 1997. The public school in the nearest town was a place for learning for the reserve children, the residential school children, and the farm and town children.
My home was about four kilometres from the residential school. I could see the lights from my deck at night. Many children ran away from this school and encountered a really rough terrain in my backyard. Sloughs, mud, uneven ice in the winter, and a dumpsite made it a dangerous path for children to take who ran away. We lost some of our community members in this area due to the conditions in the winter.
My earliest memories were of police searching this area if the staff at the residential school couldn't find a missing child or missing children who had run away. The residential school children made friends with the reserve kids, and many of the older kids in my community actually housed these children for as long as they could.
The children did not want to be there. Many of them did not return; many of them committed suicide while they were on visits with their family. My brother lost his friend in grade 1, and I lost one of mine in grade 4.
The children who left the residential school did so with little education; many left with a grade 6 or grade 7 education. Many ended up in the child and family services system and many committed suicide or passed in tragic accidents. Most ended up with drug and alcohol addictions and are homeless or working in the sex trade today.
Talking about residential schools is not a comfortable conversation, but we must talk about the devastating impacts these schools had on indigenous families and communities. We must come up with solutions to the social and economic issues we face today.
It's been 25 years since the residential school closed on my reserve. We have no supports in place for anyone who attended this school. We don't have elder resources, timely mental health supports, or even addiction and health services. The nearest place to access these services is either 45 minutes or an hour and a half away from my community.
I don't think the committee will ever be non-partisan, so let's make sure that we include people from all different viewpoints and include people of all ages, because the general public seems to think residential schools were a hundred years ago. In actuality, the youngest residential school survivor in my community turned 33 this year, so this was in our lifetime, my lifetime.
Oftentimes I find that people are quite surprised at how young I am when I speak on panels or I write about residential schools. I write about the impacts that this had on my community, but we need people who can speak for reserves. Like myself, community members will tell you what is needed. I feel like our voices are overshadowed by politics, and in the spirit of reconciliation, I hope that we can bridge the gaps among all levels of government. This is the only way we will move forward.
We don't have time when people are dying on reserves from suicides and addictions. We don't have time when mass murders are happening on our reserves, and we don't have time when my family, my nieces, still live on the reserve. We don't have time.
What I want is this: We need accountability from every level of government. When funding announcements are made, we need to make sure these funds get to the communities that need them and we need to see the outcome of what this money did. We don't currently have that, and that is very frustrating, especially from my viewpoint, when I don't see things happening as quickly as they should be.
Another thing that we need to address is poverty. We must allow our communities to prosper. When I looked at the sections in the TRC report, I saw that number 92 mentioned building relationships and having “access to jobs”, but what about the funding? How do we get these jobs? How do we get access to training? Those are the questions I am asking today.
I thank you all for being here today to listen and to hear my story, which is not very well heard out in the general public. Lots of people don't know about the impact that intergenerational trauma had on me and my family and my community.
Thank you.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau
Thank you very much, Ms. Mbarki.
We'll now go to Chief Sellars. It's not necessary, but if you wish to speak for five minutes, you have the microphone.
5:20 p.m.
Williams Lake First Nation
I'd love to.
Thank you, Melissa, for sharing your story.
We look across this country at first nation communities, first nation reserves, and it doesn't matter how successful these communities are: We continue to see the same trends in trying to narrow that socio-economic or social gap in our way of life and the health and wellness of our communities.
I grew up my entire life on the Sugar Cane reserve, which is the Williams Lake First Nation, located just outside the city of Williams Lake. Surrounding Williams Lake are 14 different first nation communities, which range from the Secwepemc to the Tsilhqot'in to the Xat'sull. Heading further out west, we have the Nuxalk, and the Stl'atl'imx to the south.
A lot of the first nations from this region attended the St. Joseph's Mission residential school, which is located six kilometres from the community core of WLFN or Sugar Cane reserve. It's where my dad went to school. We are a generation removed from residential schools in our community, but we're still seeing the trauma—the direct trauma and the intergenerational trauma—filter through in our way of life. It's really impacting our balance as a community and as a people.
The reconciliation discussion is continuing to happen across this country, and the wrongs and the legacy of residential schools are coming to the forefront of discussions. It's really helping the healing journey of our communities and our provinces and, at the end of the day, our country. However, there is still so much work to do to narrow that gap.
I don't want to be talking about when reconciliation is going to be achieved with local politicians and thinking that there's a price tag attached to it. It's potentially generations from now that reconciliation is going to be achieved, because of how much education is needed around this topic of discussion.
We have an ongoing investigation over at St. Joseph's. We announced 93 anomalies last January. We're going to be doing a similar announcement for phase two of the investigation of the GPR work—the ground-penetrating radar work—and the research that we've been doing over the last couple of years.
This is a trigger not only for this region but for this country, every single time it happens. These triggers are happening almost on a monthly basis because of the number of schools in Canada and the history and wrongs of those schools.
I look into my community and at how successful we've been over the last two years, five years, 10 years. We are an economic powerhouse in this city of Williams Lake in the Cariboo Chilcotin region. We have numerous revenue streams. We reinvest our revenue back into the community. We have over 90 staff, 50% of whom are funded through that own-source revenue. We have programs and services. We have practically nil unemployment.
We look at all the benefits of being WLFN, and all the success we've seen and all the opportunities we have. However, we still have the same trauma in our community that everyone else does. We had three overdoses this year, and two suicides. For a small community like mine, with an on-reserve membership of 300 and an overall membership pushing 800, that is a big number.
How are we going to find this balance as indigenous people? The education component is a big part of that. Also, this language, ceremony, culture revitalization discussion needs to have continued investment, not only through time but also through money. That's exactly where our focus is going. Having the partnership and the support of the provincial and federal governments is also going to be a big part of that discussion.
Continuing to educate the local municipality, which is one of our neighbouring municipalities at the city of Williams Lake, is also a massive part of that discussion. Having the pressure from other government entities for them to continue to stand beside us and hold us up and educate themselves is also going to be paramount, and seeing the curve of health and wellness in our communities.
There is a lot of work to do around reconciliation, but at the same time we also have to acknowledge all the work that has been done to date and how the focus has continued to stay on it.
Let's continue to have this discussion and continue to push it so people will catch up and people will take that initiative and run with it, just as there are numerous examples of across this country, but again this should be a reminder of how much work we still need to do.
Kukwstsétsemc, and all my relations thank you.Thank you.
5:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau
Thank you very much, Chief Sellers.
We'll go to our third witness, Okalik Eegeesiak.
Go ahead. You have five minutes.
5:25 p.m.
Josie Okalik Eegeesiak As an Individual
[Witness spoke in Inuktitut, interpreted as follows:]
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
My name is Okalik Eegeesiak, and I am from Iqaluit. I am in Iqaluit.
First of all, I want to acknowledge member Lori Idlout and Zebedee Nungak, who was a witness. It was really good to hear Zebedee Nungak's appreciation of his language being used in this meeting. I have known Mr. Nungak for a long time and I'm proud of him.
[English]
Thank you very much for this opportunity to speak to the committee on the next steps towards reconciliation. My background includes being past chair of the Inuit Circumpolar Council, an international Inuit body that represents, promotes and advocates for Inuit. I was also the national president of ITK before ITK was known as Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami, when it was Inuit Tapirisat of Canada. I've also been regional president for the Qikiqtani Inuit Association here in the Baffin region.
I'd like to remind the committee and Canadians that reconciliation does not start on the day this commission is created; it started, I think, at first contact, and we have had a lot of work to do since then and we still do now.
ICC, ITK and the regions have done a lot of work—years and years of work—doing reports, making recommendations to different governments and calling for things like community-based, Inuit-led, Inuit-managed policies, programs and services so that we could start to heal from the trauma we've experienced by being led in a culturally sensitive way in Inuktitut. Let's build on the work that Inuit organizations and indigenous organizations have done already for a much stronger national council on reconciliation.
Will a reconciliation commission mean more, better and faster reconciliACTION, as that promotion campaign effectively states? How slow or fast will it be? As you know, the Truth and Reconciliation Commission released its report and its recommendations a few years ago. As with everything else, we know that everything takes time; a lot of things take time, and the government is slo-mo, slo-mo, slo-mo. As you can appreciate, sometimes we get tired of waiting and get very impatient and frustrated.
Reconciliation must come from a balanced approach, mindset and foundation, with mutual respect and equitable resources. ICC, ITK and the RIAs have always said that: not equal but equitable resources. It must come from indigenous services and programs delivered from an indigenous perspective and approach, such as education delivered in indigenous languages and our culture being taught in schools. It must come from respecting, protecting and promoting indigenous rights, including elder rights and the rights we have negotiated for in land claims agreements.
Zebedee spoke a bit about land claims agreements and some of the sacrifices or compromises the Inuit have experienced in negotiating and signing these agreements. Now we have issues and problems getting governments to meet their obligations in these agreements. If you want reconciliation, get the governments to meet these obligations. We have negotiated for increased resources to teach our language in the schools, as well as our culture, with a solid foundation of Inuit elders and culture.
For this commission, is it enough to monitor in order to effect change? Is it enough to evaluate in order to encourage change? Will the commission research with an investigative purpose? I heard the comments earlier about some of the leading phrases in the draft not being as strong as they could be, so this is where some of my questions are coming from.
Going back to the numerous reports indigenous peoples have helped develop or released, what does “reporting” really mean? We have all experienced frustrations with important and critical reports being shelved. The Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples is one good example, along with their good recommendations. Then there is the TRC and how slow that has been. How slow will that be?
5:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau
Ms. Eegeesiak, we're going to have to get to questions. If you could wrap up, that would be good.
5:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau
Thank you very much for your opening testimony.
We'll now go to questions. We'll begin with Mr. Zimmer, according to my list.
Mr. Zimmer, you have six minutes.
5:30 p.m.
Conservative
Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON
I think it's going to be me, Mr. Chair.