Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Dec. 12th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Chief Denny, perhaps you could go next, and then Ms. Gould. You have, between the two of you, three minutes to respond to the question from Madame Gill.

[Chief Leroy Denny]

What we need to succeed in the future of our language is a very interesting question. It's a no-brainer here. It's more money for this resource, as I developed in my opening statement. I believe that to help the families and the communities, it'll have to be...it's not just school-driven. I know we get help for schools, but it has to be community-driven as well. Work with our elders, our youth and families to meet that support.

I mentioned my colleague, my fellow councillor, who is helping those families and the children get the real resources, trying to accommodate their needs and their wants—which are things like cartoons—and to fully fund our studios. Studios are very important.

On training, the technology part is the hard part. Focusing on these technology aspects of video and audio is a lot of work and a lot of money, and there needs to be investment for that part.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Before Ms. Gould answers, I would like to ask Mr. Guillet and Mr. Denny a follow‑up question.

The Indigenous Languages Act it is not yet fully implemented, but has the work that's been done so far begun to have an impact on funding? Do you feel that you're getting more stable, long-term, adequate funding, as requested, or do you feel that the money isn't coming through yet and doesn't seem likely to?

You first, Mr. Guillet.

[Gerry Guillet]

Thank you, Mrs. Gill.

Funding is exactly what we want. We need a budget that will enable us to make our vision a reality and revitalize the Dene language, not only in schools, but in the community as a whole. We haven't received any funding yet. We've submitted requests, but they've been denied. That's why I'm asking for at least enough funding to revitalize our Dene language.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

I don't know if Ms. Gould has a few seconds to answer the question.

[Blaire Gould]

Thank you for your question.

What does it take? I think we can certainly elaborate on what it takes, but if we want to just scale it back to what it is now versus what it would be for everybody, it's important that we separate the language delivery in schools and their operation from that in the community, because those thrive in different forums and things like that.

From a school perspective, let's take a look at what it currently costs to operate an immersion school, and that's a little less than $1 million. If we wanted to open that all the way up to the secondary institution, we're looking at intensive financial support there.

The money that we manage from the indigenous languages component is $1.2 million, and, as I indicated, that's for four projects. So, if that met four communities, and we did one project each for those communities, there are still nine other communities that do not receive anything. That is not equitable to those communities. If we wanted to say, “We must meet everybody there”, we're talking about a minimum of $4 million to just satisfy one project for those communities. Most often, communities have multiple projects as their desirables, and that's just at the minimum amount.

Then, in terms of community, certainly, as well, the cost of the whole community approach is quite different. It's important to always differentiate that and consider that.

That's my response to your question, Ms. Gill.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Ms. Gould.

Thank you, Mrs. Gill.

We'll now go to our last speaker, Ms. Idlout.

Ms. Idlout, you will have seven minutes.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

[Member spoke in Inuktitut, interpreted as follows:]

Thank you.

First, I thank all of you who spoke and gave this presentation today.

I am aware of what you said and what you stated as your needs. You have confirmed those needs. I want to remind committee members here that we are well informed on the federal government, and that when they have responsibilities that impact indigenous people, there is very little will and there is very little commitment. It's too bad.

Keeping that in mind, we all know that under the truth and reconciliation objectives we have to be more committed to ensuring that indigenous languages will not be lost, that they will be revived. What can the federal government do to help us ensure that we do not lose them, and that we continue to speak them and even make this better than it is now, as some are under threat?

Perhaps the three guest speakers can give us some ideas on how the federal government can be more supportive and committed to meeting our objectives, starting with Chief Denny.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Chief Denny, did you get that translation? Are you ready to respond to that?

[Chief Leroy Denny]

I'm sorry. I did not get that translation. I was looking for it and my screen disappeared on me.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Just for your information, it's that little globe at the bottom that's called “interpretation”.

[Chief Leroy Denny]

Yes. I know where it is. It's just that my screen disappeared on me. It's a Mac computer, and I don't know it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

All right.

With that, perhaps we could go to Ms. Gould.

[Blaire Gould]

Thank you for your question.

It's difficult not to just always talk about money. Certainly, that is the most important thing the federal government can do: invest adequate funding into the endeavours of nations trying to restore their languages.

At my first witness testimony back in 2018 or 2019, I was asked how many languages I thought we could save. At that time, I said “all of them”, leaving no language behind. With regard to the investments of today, while there are investments that are a lot better than they were in the past, this does leave languages behind. Even with the investment I have here in Nova Scotia that I manage, I may not leave a language behind—because we speak one language—but I leave communities behind because I don't have enough for everybody. That is a very difficult and unfair position to be in.

I hope that all languages are treated with the same dignity and respect: that they matter and they are important languages that deserve and have a right to survive. That equals adequate funding. That is the first step of it.

There is also ownership and responsibility that nations can take on. It's about making sure that planning is in place. We are very pro-planners here when it comes to language revitalization efforts. We don't want to duplicate the efforts of other communities when things are happening there, but we also want to make sure that when money—those scarce dollars—comes through, there is a plan of action immediately: that something must be done and that it is realistic and achievable by the communities. We do a lot of support in that aspect. That is a responsibility that we take on and that communities take on to make sure that we are very planned and have sound, smart planning in place.

Ultimately, I think that's my response to you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you.

Would Mr. Guillet weigh in, as well?

[Gerry Guillet]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Idlout, I appreciate your comments very much. You're right on.

It's about sustainable, predictable funding for us to achieve our visions. Certainly, in our communities, in particular, our elders are disappointed that the language is not being maintained by our young ones, who are on iPads or whatever. English is dominant. We insist, in every one of our school programs, that Dene be spoken so it can be revitalized, but the resources aren't there. Our funding is absolutely critical for this success and realization.

Our students in schools in the extreme north, in isolated communities, need the same advantages and education opportunities that students in the south, across the nation, take for granted. Our students don't have any opportunity to realize that. There are no trade programs. There are hardly any technology programs. There are no electives for our high school students. There are no extracurriculars. They can't compete with other schools. They can't have school teams. That's the essence of bringing children into school. We can't do that, because we don't have the funding, but our language is our top priority. We don't have the funding to move forward.

We have all our programs and outcomes laid out, but how do we get there when we don't have the resources? We are pleading and begging: Give us an opportunity and sustained, predictable, indexed funding, so we can move forward. Currently, in our budget ask, we're $34,000 per student short on providing an equitable education program that would be comparable to those in our southern schools. Why are our children in a third-world school? They're not able to get programs so their future can be realized, whatever their dreams are. That's our goal. It's all for the kids.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Mr. Guillet.

With that, I'd like to thank our three witnesses this morning.

Chief Denny, Ms. Gould and Mr. Guillet, thank you for your eloquent testimonies. I think there's no question that everybody agrees there are some common themes among all three witnesses this morning, on this issue we are studying.

You are our first witnesses on this study we're undertaking on indigenous languages. Thank you very much for appearing this morning to kick us off.

With that, we'll suspend briefly to prepare for the next panel.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Welcome to the witnesses for the second panel: Ms. Alexina Kublu, an Inuktitut language instructor, and Grand Chief Ron Tremblay of the Wolastoq Grand Council.

We'll run the panel this way: You will each be given five minutes to make introductory remarks, and then we'll follow that with the first round of questions.

With that, if you are ready, Ms. Kublu, the microphone is yours for five minutes. Please go ahead.

[Alexina Kublu, Inuktitut Language Instructor, As an Individual]

[Witness spoke in Inuktitut, interpreted as follows:]

Thank you, Mr. Garneau.

I am thinking that it's very short notice, and five minutes is very short. Given the five minutes that we have, I want to inform you that I have given you my biography ahead of time.

I teach the Inuktitut language.

[English]

From 2003 on, I was involved with the ministerial task force on aboriginal languages and cultures. I was one of two Inuit representatives on that task force, and I have been the languages commissioner for Nunavut, but, of all that I have done in my life, Inuktitut language instructor is what I have done the most. It spans all of the Inuit areas of Canada. As well, I have gone to teach in Greenland, and I taught Inuktitut to University of Washington students, but my heart is with the people of the Inuit of Nunavut and our struggle to maintain our language. As you all know, Nunavut covers four million square kilometres of land divided into 24 communities and three regions, all accessible only by air.

In addition, I teach Inuktitut to adults at the college, but I'm also on the district education board for the community of Iqaluit, where I currently live. Therefore, I see language both through having been an elementary school teacher but also through hearing from the principals on how the language is happening.

I am currently an Inuktitut instructor to potential teachers in Nunavut. We have two streams of teacher education students. One is proficient. The other is emergent, in that the emergent students are trying to develop their own personal language skills so that they can eventually teach Inuktitut in the schools. The proficient-level students are already proficient in the language. However, having been an instructor for over 40 years and also in the teacher education program, I have noticed that, although our proficient-stream students are fluent at conversation, their knowledge of the language is not as in-depth as it was when we had students 30 years ago.

Now, as I have noticed, instead of working with “this is how our language works”, I've had to explain our language more and more, and yet this is what students still speak. It's the language in their home and in the community, but the level of language has declined. The proficiency of Inuktitut speakers through Nunavut varies. We have communities where young people who are younger than 30 have no Inuktitut, but I was back home in my home community of Igloolik last August and the children who were playing outside were still conversing in Inuktitut. It's a very wide stream of proficiency.

I have looked through the Indigenous Languages Act, and I want to address parts of it.

In the preamble, in paragraph 10, I do agree with the “urgent need to support the efforts of the Indigenous peoples to reclaim, revitalize, maintain and strengthen” our languages. That to me is paramount. Also, in paragraph 14, I was looking at Canada being “committed to providing adequate, sustainable and long-term funding”. I looked through what funding is provided throughout Canada for the French language. I'm going to mention just two examples.

In Newfoundland and Labrador, where there are Inuit speakers—there are Inuit in Labrador—there is no funding for the language, yet for the French language, there is $350,000 a year from the federal government for the French language for five years, or $1.75 million.

Also, this is an old one from B.C.: $700,000 a year for French. I know that when I was on the task force there were 60 languages of first peoples in Canada, with the Inuit language being one and, therefore, all the rest being Métis and first nations. Of those, 50 languages are in B.C., and although there is $700,000 a year for the French language, and each language in B.C. is a separate language, they are not getting that kind of funding. This paragraph 14 in the preamble is also very important to me.

I am now going to page 5—

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Ms. Kublu.

Ms. Kublu, unfortunately we have to stick to a schedule because of questions. Perhaps you'll be able to bring out some of these points when you're questioned on them. Thank you for your opening testimony.

We will now go to Grand Chief Ron Tremblay.

You will have five minutes to make introductory remarks. Go ahead, Grand Chief.

[Grand Chief Ron Tremblay, Wolastoqey Language Developer and Teacher, Wolastoq Grand Council]

[Witness spoke in Wolastoqey]

[English]

Greetings. My traditional name is Morning Star Burning, and I represent, through my mother's side, the Crow Clan and, from my father's side, the Wolf Clan. I am from the homeland we call the Wolastoqey. We are the people of the beautiful and bountiful river.

I just stepped out of a mite ceremony, here in Winnipeg. I flew here a day and a half ago. Senator Murray Sinclair is part of our beautiful ceremonies. He spoke yesterday, at the tail end of our session, about how important language is to all indigenous peoples and how it connects us deeply to who we are and our relationship to the land, waters and all the fauna and flora. Plus, he said, it points out what our responsibilities are, as a nation and people—as citizens of our nations.

I just turned 62 years old a week ago. I am probably one of the youngest fluent speakers of our Wolastoqey language. Unfortunately, people younger than me can possibly comprehend what we're saying, but the younger ones cannot speak it. They are not fluent at all in our Wolastoqey language.

Back when I was born, in 1960, you could walk around my community of Neqotkuk, which is called Tobique, and that was all you heard: our beautiful Wolastoqey language. Because of Catholicism and the provincial school system, our language decreased rapidly within two decades. It is unfortunate that our language is on the brink of extinction. We have approximately 10,000 citizens in our nation, but fewer than 100 speakers are left. I have five sisters and four brothers. Fortunately, we grew up in a home where our parents and grandparents spoke fluently, so we're all fluent speakers, but we're some of the few who can still speak our language. We are in very dire straits, right now.

On a positive note, this past September, we started a pre-K immersion program outside the city of Fredericton. It was started by Lisa Perley-Dutcher, who is a first cousin of mine. We have six students there. I go in once a week to help and guide the teachers in our language, but we lack funding from both the provincial and federal governments. We have put in various proposals, but very few are approved. We are very fortunate that the mayor and council of the City of Fredericton gifted us with a building to teach the language in. It's an on-land teaching process we're doing there.

I was fortunate to visit our Maori sisters and brothers in New Zealand, approximately four years ago. I was so amazed and astonished that every one of their communities had a Maori immersion program. They were getting full support from the New Zealand government, because their language, over 35 years ago, had fewer than five speakers left. With the hard work of those five grandmothers, plus the support of the New Zealand government, they have more than.... I believe 75% are now fluent in their beautiful Maori language.

We are in dire straits on the east coast. In the province of New Brunswick, the Wolastoqey language is dying. We need funding and support, especially through the immersion programs. There was an elder woman, Christine Saulis, who taught for over 40 years in the provincial school system in a Wolastoqey core program. Close to her death, I remember talking to Christine. She was such a beautiful, kind lady. She said, “Ronnie, in all the years that I taught, I never produced one fluent speaker, because these little core language programs, 20 minutes to 30 minutes a day, do not work. We need immersion programs.”

I am proposing that the federal government put monies and funding to support immersion programs in our communities, as well as all over our nations.

I will end with that. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Chief Tremblay.

We'll now go to our first round of questions, for six minutes.

I think it's Mr. Vidal, again, but correct me if I'm wrong.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Mr. Chair, it's Mr. Zimmer.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Go ahead, Mr. Zimmer.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Thank you.

Thank you both for your comments. My questions are going to be predominantly to Alexina.

I really like what you just said, Mr. Tremblay, about the outcomes, because that's the basis of what I'm going to ask Ms. Kublu about.

As a former teacher, I think what we consider a success is when we have students who are actually able to achieve what we set out to have them learn at the beginning of the year. It's part of the joy of teaching, but it's also part of what the course is meant to do.

Mr. Tremblay, I guess what I'm concerned about is when I heard you say that unless it was full immersion, you weren't seeing high success rates. You had seen only one student, you say—and I don't want to put words in your mouth—who actually learned the language or was successful.

I'll ask maybe Ms. Kublu about that. We talk about programs like this. It isn't just about the finance. It isn't just about the money. It's actually seeing those kids and students...and it's not only kids. It can be adults who have learned their language for the first time. That's a great joy.

What would be the best way, Ms. Kublu, to see our dream of enabling indigenous and Inuit people to learn their language and also pass it on? What do we need to do to make that happen at the highest success rate possible?