Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on March 22nd, 2023

[The Clerk of the Committee, Ms. Vanessa Davies]

Honourable members of the committee, I see a quorum.

I must inform the members of the committee that the clerk of the committee can only receive motions for the election of the chair. The clerk cannot receive other types of motions, cannot entertain points of order nor participate in debate.

We can now proceed to the election of the chair.

Pursuant to Standing Order 106(2), the chair must be a member of the governing party. I am ready to receive motions for the chair.

Yes, Ms. Idlout.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

[Member spoke in Inuktitut, interpreted as follows:]

I would like to nominate Jenica Atwin for chairperson.

[The Clerk]

It has been moved by Ms. Idlout that Jenica Atwin be elected as chair of the committee.

Are there any further motions?

Is it the pleasure of the committee to adopt the motion?

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Can we have a recorded vote, if that's possible?

[The Clerk]

A recorded vote has been requested.

(Motion agreed to: yeas 8; nays 0)

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear!

[The Chair, Liberal, Jenica Atwin]

I call the meeting to order.

I welcome you to meeting number 55 of the Standing Committee on Indigenous and Northern Affairs.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format pursuant to the House order of Thursday, June 23, 2022. Members will participate in person or using the Zoom application. The proceedings will be made available on the House of Commons website. For your information, the webcast will always show the individual speaking rather than the entirety of the committee.

For those participating virtually, I would like to outline a few rules to follow.

You may speak in the official language of your choice. Interpretation services are available for this meeting in French, English and Inuktitut. You have the choice, at the bottom of your screen, of floor, English or French. Please select your language now.

If interpretation is lost, please inform me immediately, and we will ensure interpretation is properly restored before resuming the proceedings.

For members participating in person, proceed as you usually would when the whole committee is meeting in person in a committee room.

Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. If you are on the video conference, please click on the microphone icon to unmute yourself. Those in the room, your mike will be controlled as normal by the proceedings and verification officer.

Please address your comments through the chair.

When speaking, please speak slowly and clearly. I will also try to follow that rule. When you are not speaking, your mike should be on mute.

With regard to a speaking list, the committee clerk and I will do the best we can to maintain a consolidated order of speaking for all members, whether they are participating virtually or in person.

Our next study will be the Parliamentary Budget Officer's report on the research and comparative analysis of the estimates of the Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs and the Department of Indigenous Services. This was Mr. Vidal's motion, adopted November 21, 2022.

Does the committee instruct the clerk to invite the appropriate witnesses for our meetings on April 24 and April 26, 2023?

(Motion agreed to)

We also have to reschedule our witnesses from March 20. Is it the will of the committee to reschedule the March 20 witnesses to April 17 and have drafting instructions and committee business on April 19?

(Motion agreed to)

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on November 21, 2022, the committee is resuming its study on improving graduation rates for indigenous students.

Today we welcome Lisa Smith, interim adviser to the president, Native Women's Association of Canada, via video conference. I'm told, however, that we may have an issue, which we'll have to address. We also welcome Thomas Sierzycki from the Saskatchewan Ministry of Education, who is appearing in person. We also welcome Margaret Moss, professor and director, First Nations House of Learning, University of British Columbia, via video conference. Thank you very much for being with us today.

We will have five minutes for each of our speakers. Please be on time. I will be there to remind you as well. We will hear from Dr. Moss first.

You have five minutes.

[Dr. Margaret Moss, Professor and Director, First Nations House of Learning, University of British Columbia]

Thank you for the opportunity to appear before this committee today to speak on indigenous student experiences, retention and success at UBC, with a focus on the Vancouver campus where I'm stationed.

How do students experience “place”? UBC is on the unceded, ancestral and traditional territory of the Musqueam people. This ongoing relationship includes land acknowledgement, place names in hən̓q̓əmin̓əm̓, art work, recognition and dialogue about place in most areas of the university. This supports learning and connection to this land for both indigenous and non-indigenous students. This recognition is a reminder to students about the commitment between the Musqueam and UBC to participating in a relationship that relies on an authentic partnership.

The UBC Longhouse and the First Nations House of Learning are features of the campus for the indigenous community. Long-term indigenous strategic planning has encouraged the incorporation of indigenous staff members throughout the units and faculties to ensure that there are opportunities for belonging throughout the campus. We have the indigenous strategic plan, which launched in 2020 with eight goals, including—and I'll just read a few—leading at all levels, advocating for truth, moving research forward, and indigenizing our curriculum.

Student success is dependent on belonging. Students need to feel that someone at UBC cares about them. Often, the greatest support that students find is in their peer connections. Investing in programming and resources that enrich community and connection experiences are important tools in supporting the indigenous student experience.

There's a great diversity of indigenous students at UBC, each with their own unique needs. We need to ensure that there are many different spaces and resources for students to connect. The UBC Longhouse and the šxʷta:təχʷəm Collegium provide spaces where staff and student staff are invested in creating belonging by reaching out and supporting students. Additional campus spaces and support for indigenous students ensure that there's flexibility, so students also have the ability to change spaces and supports as needed.

Indigenous student leaders play leading roles in creating community, are aware of resources and staff connections, and are guided by curriculum that reflects changes, challenges and opportunities for the year.

Academic, mental health and wellness supports are so important for indigenous students. Indigenous academic advisers need to exist in all faculties to support the specific needs of indigenous students within faculty learning environments. Although there are numerous tutoring programs available on campus, our indigenous student-focused program at the First Nations House of Learning ensures that students have a place to receive support that is safe. The collegium also runs academic support programs—indigenous student-led—that incorporate the importance of well-being into academic success. The professor in collegia program ensures that indigenous students have the opportunity to build community with an indigenous faculty member.

Finally, mental health supports for indigenous students are well thought out and continue to grow to meet student needs. UBC has an indigenous mental health and wellness support team that provides one-on-one support. There's crisis support and connection to long-term supports. Early Alert, a campus-wide program, also exists to intervene and navigate for students who may face multiple challenges in their academic journey.

Enrolment service professionals work to support by providing financial, housing and registration advice. Our enrolment number for the 2021 academic year was 2,204 indigenous students, with a total head count of 72,000-plus students for both campuses.

The programming I have mentioned is for the Vancouver campus, where around 1,500 indigenous students attend. The first-year undergrad retention is at 88%. In 2021, 329 degrees were conferred on indigenous students—graduate and undergraduate—on the UBCV campus.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jenica Atwin]

Thank you, Ms. Moss.

We'll now proceed to our next witness.

Thomas Sierzycki, you have five minutes.

[Thomas Sierzycki, Northern Education Advisor, Saskatchewan Ministry of Education]

Good afternoon. Thank you for the invitation and congratulations, Madam Chair.

It's a pleasure to be here in the nation's capital on the unsurrendered territory of the Anishinabe Algonquin nation to discuss topics that are very important to me.

I come to you from La Ronge, Saskatchewan, located on Treaty No. 6 territory and the home of the Métis people. As a lifelong northerner and the father of two indigenous boys, I hope to bring perspective of the work that is being done and needs to be done in order to improve graduation rates and successful outcomes for northern and indigenous students.

I've had the opportunity to work with the Saskatchewan Ministry of Education for close to seven years. As the education adviser to the deputy minister's office, there are several crucial developments that have improved the educational opportunities for northern and indigenous students. As we work towards educational improvement in the province, our minister, the Honourable Dustin Duncan, and the deputy minister, Donna Johnson, have set priorities to ensure a path of a collaborative journey with indigenous, northern and Métis partners.

In this spirit of collaboration, the Ministry of Education has been working on a new provincial education plan that is inclusive to and cognizant of the students we serve. This plan will serve as the foundation of education in the province until 2030 and includes indigenous knowledge throughout. Indigenous and Métis stakeholders are part of the creation and implementation of this innovative plan. Areas such as student mental health are also pillars of this plan.

There are five important aspects that are critical investments to improve the education of indigenous, Métis and northern students.

The first is strategic investment and resourcing in the early years. As numerous studies have indicated, strategic investments in early childhood development have significant societal and financial gains. As a province, we have invested in family resource centres, KidsFirst North, early childhood intervention programs and child care centres. The Canada-Saskatchewan Canada-Wide Early Learning and Child Care Agreement and the bilateral Canada-Saskatchewan Early Learning and Child Care Agreement are two examples of the collaborative nature of the levels of government coming together to impact kids.

The second is curriculum and instructional supports. In addition to a collaborative and inclusive curriculum model, the Ministry of Education's “Following Their Voices”, the invitational shared services agreement and the learning opportunities program—or the LOP—provide supports, collaboration and funding to improve teacher practice and to engage school divisions and first nations authorities. LOP funding includes science, technology, engineering and mathematics—or STEM—instruction. Saskatchewan mandated treaty curricula in 2007, and it has proven to be extremely important for all students in the province.

The third is infrastructure investment. It is important that northern and first nations communities have access to safe and welcoming schools that are reflective of them within their communities. The Ministry of Education continues to invest in school renovation and replacement, with a strong example being the $30-million elementary school that is currently being built in La Loche. Minister Duncan said, “This new elementary school will be able to serve not only the students and families of La Loche, but also the broader community for generations to come.” The school is set to open in spring 2025 and has been designed with community aspects throughout.

The fourth is teacher recruitment and retention, which continues to be an issue in northern Saskatchewan. The Government of Saskatchewan continues to fund teacher programs such as the Dene teacher education program in La Loche and local regional colleges to provide local teacher education programs. It is well understood that teachers learning in their respective communities have a higher success rate and are more inclined to stay and teach in the communities they call home. When indigenous, northern and Métis students see that their teachers are just like them, this creates an atmosphere of trust, pride and success. The Ministry of Education also works with local school divisions on ways to best support their recruitment and retention plans in both strategic and financial ways.

The fifth is distance learning opportunities. The Government of Saskatchewan is in the process of establishing a new Saskatchewan Distance Learning Corporation, or Sask DLC. The new centralized school will streamline online learning in the province and provide students across the province with equal access to more than 180 online courses for kindergarten to grade 12 students, including more than 120 high-school electives to choose from. The Sask DLC will have a central office in Kenaston, Saskatchewan, with nine additional satellite locations that will help serve every geographic region in the province. In-school online facilitators will assist students with any learning challenges they may experience. It is important to note that the Sask DLC will provide opportunities to students where there may not be a teacher, or there's a teacher shortage within their classroom. This model will help students in remote areas with receiving the best possible education.

As indicated, Saskatchewan is doing innovative and transformative things to make educational standing and opportunities a priority for first nations, indigenous, northern and Métis students. With strong instruction and support, there's significant opportunity to work with first nations and Métis stakeholders to make our collective education system the best it can be for all students.

I'd like to thank the Standing Committee on Indigenous and Northern Affairs for the invitation to speak on ways to improve the educational attainment of our students. I am looking forward to the rest of our time as we engage in this discussion and important topic.

As we would say in northern Saskatchewan, thank you, merci, têniki and mahsi cho.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jenica Atwin]

Thank you, Mr. Sierzycki.

Our witness, Lisa Smith, will have to be rescheduled for another time due to technical difficulties.

We will now continue to our first round of questions, starting with the Conservatives and Mr. Vidal, for six minutes.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Congratulations on your new appointment.

Welcome, Mr. Aldag, to our committee. I look forward to the opportunity to get to know you.

I'm going to start with Mr. Sierzycki this morning...or this afternoon, I guess it is. It's been a long day.

I have a couple of questions for you in the context of some of the comments you made, the first one being around investments in early education.

I had a very wise man tell me recently that, if we want to improve graduation rates anywhere, whether it's on reserve, off reserve or in non-indigenous schools, we should focus on the reading rates from kindergarten to grade 3. It's a longer-term investment, but we have to start giving them that opportunity. You talked about some of the investments the Province of Saskatchewan has made in early childhood learning and intervention. I just want to give you an opportunity to speak a little bit further to that for a couple minutes. Then I'll move on to another question.

[Thomas Sierzycki]

Absolutely. We learn to read, and then we read to learn. Those are important aspects I think everyone in this room is familiar with. Literacy and literacy knowledge is absolutely critical in the formation of any student to do well in any aspect of education. We believe that strategic investments such as early programming is key, especially in communities that may be isolated and lack additional resources. Of course, working with other levels of government and first nations' leadership, the Province of Saskatchewan has engaged in several unique partnerships.

One of them I'll speak to is KidsFirst North. In this last budgetary cycle, we announced about six family resource centres across the province that work with families of all backgrounds, but also geographically in areas with a high number of indigenous families. That is one aspect of working collectively to ensure that literacy is a priority, best practices of engaging and teaching literacy are a practice, and also that we are just providing resources for that aspect.

Absolutely, any suggestion, as an educator...and I think anyone who's an educator in this room knows that early literacy is absolutely paramount for the further success of all students.

Thank you for that question.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Thank you.

I was going to just point out for the committee, and I forgot to do it at the beginning, that Mr. Sierzycki is one of the youngest mayors ever elected in Canada. He was elected as mayor at 21, after being a councillor for a couple of years in his community of La Ronge. I think that's a really cool fact about our witness today.

To get back to the topic though, you talked about teacher recruitment and retention. One of the things I know is a struggle in my riding in northern Saskatchewan—which you reside in, you know this—specifically in first nations schools, is the actual recruitment of teachers, qualified teachers, teachers who are educated to be teachers. Recruitment and retention is such an important factor.

You talked about how teachers learning in their respective communities have a higher success rate and are more inclined to stay and teach in the communities they call home. I just want to give you an opportunity to expand on that a little bit. I know this is not exactly where you work, but in the context of what would apply in some of the first nation schools in northern Saskatchewan, how might we be able to learn something about attracting qualified and educated teachers into some of those communities that are struggling with that exact challenge?

[Thomas Sierzycki]

Thank you for that.

I do want to say that I stepped down after my second term. I did not run again, so I wasn't beat. That's always a good thing as a politician, for everyone in this room.

That being said, in the teacher recruitment and retention piece, there are some innovative things being done. One example is Clearwater River Dene Nation in La Loche, which has a Dene TEP program. This is an educational, four-year university program, partnering with First Nations University of Canada through the U of R, and funded by the Ministry of Advanced Education. This is providing an opportunity for teachers to be trained in their local communities, and working with school divisions and first nations authorities to support them in practicum spaces. It ensures that those teachers are engaged in the communities they're from.

The first rendition of DTEP was created in 2006 after the horrific school shooting in La Loche. Of the students who went through that program, 80% to 90% of them are still engaged in northern Saskatchewan teaching occupations. I say 80% to 90% because, when you become a specialized teacher, you're in high demand. We've had several teachers go as far as British Columbia. Other provinces also hired them. Again, this is a good thing.

The school division is also working with the University of Saskatchewan to have a program in Cumberland House.

What we're finding is that, when you have these teachers in the community, it's not only building human capacity in that community, but it's also filling that void where teachers may not normally come to those communities to start off their careers. We're seeing a pinch across the country in terms of teachers filling vacancies across jurisdictions, including circumpolar north regions. This is a prime example of what's working.

Absolutely, more significant investment could be done in this area, but for what's being invested, it's been an awesome thing to see.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

My time is really short, so add whatever comments you want to add around the concept of collaboration.

I know that's a really important thing to you. Take the last few seconds you have and talk about collaboration.

[Thomas Sierzycki]

Thank you for that.

In terms of collaboration, obviously I'm here to talk about the innovative and great things the Province of Saskatchewan is doing, but that's not to say there isn't more to be done.

The only way to do more for kids across Canada—indigenous kids across Canada—is to work with all levels of government and all stakeholders to work collectively and work from the perspective of those students that we're serving. Without having their voices and the voices of communities and elders, significant change won't happen to the educational establishment.

Thank you for that. Again, that's the collaborative piece.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jenica Atwin]

Thank you very much, Mr. Vidal.

We'll now move to Liberal member Jaime Battiste for six minutes.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Thank you, Madam Chair. Congratulations on being the chair.

Mr. Sierzycki, during your intervention you talked a little bit about how, in 2007, the province mandated treaty curricula. I think that's a lot of the good work that's been done by the Office of the Treaty Commissioner in Saskatchewan. Now it's being run by the treaty commissioner, Mary Culbertson. They're doing some excellent work. In fact, in Nova Scotia, we went to Saskatchewan to see how the practice of treaty commissions could run in terms of creating best practices across Canada.

Do you think that indigenous students seeing themselves reflected in the education system and in the curriculum—not just on reserve but everywhere—increases graduation rates?

[Thomas Sierzycki]

Thank you for that question, MP Battiste.

Absolutely. In 2007, Saskatchewan implemented mandatory first nations curricula throughout. Premier Wall, at that time, indicated that this was a priority for the Ministry of Education. From that time, I can tell you that there were significant improvements in not only attendance but in every other aspect of students seeing themselves reflected in that curricula. When you're attending school and you're seeing yourself reflected in that, of course you're going to succeed.

The OTC does a tremendous job in terms of resourcing and supporting with best practices teachers across the province, who may not even have a background or the knowledge of how to best approach those things. That's been very important.

The other thing I want to say, from a personal perspective, is that we have two indigenous boys. I'm non-indigenous. My wife is from Saddle Lake Cree Nation. She's sitting in the back there, obviously, and listening to me. With that being said, we have a perspective from seeing our boys at home talk about certain things, like what their grandparents perhaps had gone through and where they come from. Those are all positive things about creating who they are and how they fit into the educational system as a whole.

Absolutely, sir, the resourcing from OTC as well as mandating indigenous curricula are two important steps.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Thank you very much for that, Mr. Sierzycki.

I'm going to turn my question to Dr. Moss. She talked a little bit about the university. We've been focusing a bit on high school graduation rates.

Can you talk to us a little about some of the best practices around advancing reconciliation within university campuses? How have they led to better graduation rates at the university level for indigenous students?

[Dr. Margaret Moss]

I came to the University of British Columbia in 2018 and was able to be colead on their refreshed indigenous strategic plan. That process took two years. It was launched in 2020 and helped us get all the voices in. We spoke to indigenous students, faculty, staff, non-indigenous people, many community members and so forth, to be able to see what our people want and what they need. That's how we came up with the eight goals, four of which I read earlier.

Another one was spaces. How do we reconcile spaces? That seems to be a big thing for students. They want to know where to go, where they are welcome and where they can find other people like them, other students and so forth, who can share their experiences. In that realm, we were able to make the First Nations House of Learning, which is housed within the First Nations Longhouse. We've just expanded it 2,500 square feet to add new spaces.

On the other end, we started an indigenous collegia, which is specifically for first-year students for most of the collegia on UBC—there are six or seven of them—to be able to get people in and feel comfortable, build community and so forth.

We started an indigenous collegium in the Longhouse. That also took quite a bit of work remodelling, recruiting and so forth. We don't kick them out, if you will, after the first year, but we did recognize that first-year students really do need something. At the first nations house, we also recruited and onboarded a first-year retention coordinator, recognizing that there is some drop-off in first year, especially the first term of the first year, especially when we just went through the pandemic. Money was tight, and people needed a lot of support and backup.

We were literally making spaces, building spaces, for people to come and feel comfortable, especially first-year students. The first-year coordinator works both in the wider Longhouse and then also in the collegium, so there are lot of resources for the people just coming in from high school.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Dr. Moss, I know that you've spent some time focusing on the students here. I want to focus on the professors a bit here, as I am a former indigenous professor.

What are some of the key things that universities can do to make sure that their indigenous professors feel supported and welcome in continuing their job of helping indigenous students?

[Dr. Margaret Moss]

We have sort of an informal, loose indigenous caucus for faculty. We also have another group that is for indigenous staff. At the Longhouse, we've just started having indigenous staff lunches, which is also faculty—faculty and staff. We just started it this year to do just what you're talking about, to try to build community within the faculty, within the staff, to hear what's going on with the students and what's going on with curriculum in terms of indigenizing all of the things that we talk about with decolonization, indigenizing and reconciliation.

This forum seems to be growing, and it's been very useful. We've had lunches and things for the students, but again, it was recognized that staff and faculty also needed this community building.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jenica Atwin]

Thank you very much, Mr. Battiste.

I will now give the floor to our colleague from the Bloc Québécois.

Ms. Larouche, you have six minutes.