Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on May 29th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Jenica Atwin]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 67 of the Standing Committee on Indigenous and Northern Affairs.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format pursuant to the House order of Thursday, June 23, 2022. Members of the committee are participating in person in the room and remotely using the Zoom application.

The proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website. Just so that you are aware, the webcast will always show the person speaking rather than the entire committee.

For those participating virtually, I'd like to outline a few rules to follow. You may speak in the official language of your choice. Interpretation services are available for this meeting in French, English and Inuktitut. You have the choice at the bottom of your screen of either floor, English or French audio. Please select your language now. If interpretation is lost, please inform me immediately, and we will ensure that interpretation is properly restored before resuming the proceedings.

For members participating in person, proceed as you usually would when the whole committee is meeting in person in a committee room.

Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. If you are on the video conference, please click on the microphone icon to unmute yourself. For those in the room, your mike will be controlled as normal by the proceedings and verification officer.

A reminder that all comments by members and witnesses should be addressed through the chair.

When speaking, please speak slowly and clearly, and I will try to take my own advice. When you are not speaking, your mike should be on mute.

With regard to a speaking list, the committee clerk and I will do the best we can to maintain a consolidated order of speaking for all members, whether they are participating virtually or in person.

Pursuant to Standing Order 81(4), the committee is beginning its examination of the following votes in the 2023‑24 main estimates: vote 1 under Canadian High Arctic Research Station; votes 1, 5, 10 and L15 under Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs; and votes 1, 5 and 10 under Department of Indigenous Services. The votes were referred to the committee on February 15, 2023.

With us for the first hour are the Honourable Dan Vandal, Minister of Northern Affairs, and the Honourable Marc Miller, Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations, as well as their officials.

Thank you very much for joining us this afternoon.

In our second hour, we will be joined by the Honourable Patty Hajdu, Minister of Indigenous Services, and her officials.

Each of you will have the floor for five minutes.

We will begin with Minister Vandal.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Minister of Northern Affairs]

Thank you so much, Chair.

Hello, everybody. Bonjour. Ullukkut.

I'd like to begin by acknowledging that Canada's Parliament is located on the unceded, traditional territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people.

Thank you for the opportunity to discuss and respond to your questions on the 2023-24 main estimates for Northern Affairs.

CIRNAC's 2023-24 main estimates include a total of approximately $9.2 billion in funding, of which $968.3 million is for Northern Affairs.

The main estimates include $74.8 million allocated for climate change and clean energy.

The department continues to encourage and support community-led adaptation and clean energy projects with northern, rural, remote and indigenous communities to address the impacts of climate change, displace fossil fuels, and advance reconciliation and self-determination.

Through five climate change adaptation and mitigation programs, Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada continues to invest in initiatives to support clean energy projects in northern and indigenous communities.

The Government of Canada is also supporting co-development of an indigenous climate leadership agenda to chart a path forward to self-determined climate action.

The main estimates also include $489 million in spending for the northern contaminated sites program to manage the cleanup of contaminated sites such as abandoned mines in the north. The Government of Canada is responsible for the management of a portfolio of contaminated sites in Yukon, Northwest Territories and Nunavut.

The contamination of these properties is the result of private sector mining, oil and gas activities and government military activity that occurred more than 50 years ago. The program creates jobs and skills development opportunities for indigenous partners and local workers, as much of the work is carried out by indigenous-led businesses.

These estimates also contain planned spending related to our nutrition north Canada program, which is more important than ever. The main estimates include $182.7 million in investments to support this program.

The program helps eligible northern communities through the nutrition north Canada retail subsidy, the harvesters support grant and community food programs fund, nutrition education initiatives and the food security research grant. Through this program, we work with local communities to provide culturally relevant programming to meet the needs of northern residents and increase access to affordable and nutritious food.

I'd also like to take a moment to discuss how some key investments identified recently in budget 2023 will benefit people in the north and in the Arctic, in particular $4 billion to implement a co-developed urban, rural and northern indigenous housing strategy, which I believe originated at this committee several years ago. These proposed investments will help northerners to access safe and affordable housing, which we know is critical to improving health and social outcomes and building a strong and prosperous north.

Other important investments from budget 2023 include $19.4 million to increase the participation of indigenous people and other northerners in environmental and regulatory assessments of major projects in the territories. An additional $1.6 million has also been proposed for coordinating federal participation in environmental assessments and associated consultations with indigenous communities on these major projects.

The 2023‑24 estimates also propose $8.7 million for deeper engagement on a national benefits-sharing framework that will improve the quality and consistency of benefits indigenous communities derive from major resource projects in their territories.

In concluding, thank you for inviting me today, and I look forward to any questions you may have.

Qujannamiik. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jenica Atwin]

Thank you very much, Minister Vandal.

Now I move to Minister Miller for five minutes.

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations]

Thank you, Chair. Kwe, unusakut, tansi, hello.

Good afternoon.

I'd like to begin by thanking Mr. Vandal for acknowledging that we are on unceded territory.

I would also like to thank the committee for inviting me today.

I am pleased to present the 2023‑24 main estimates for the Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs, as well as related information from budget 2023.

As this committee has seen, Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada's 2023-24 main estimates are approximately $9.2 billion. Of this amount, $8 billion is for Crown-Indigenous Relations.

The main estimates reflect a net increase of $3.3 billion compared to last year's main estimates. This is a crucial increase in funding in order to expedite work at the negotiation tables, settle historical grievances and advance reconciliation.

This includes $3.5 billion towards claims resolution, most notably earlier in the year $2.9 billion that will go towards the Gottfriedson Band class settlement agreement. This settlement will establish an indigenous-led trust for communities that have opted into the class action, to support the revival and protection of indigenous languages, cultures, heritage and wellness for indigenous communities and their members.

Another $1.9 billion will be put towards the resolution of a number of specific claims. As this committee knows, last year was a record year for these types of settlements, with 56 claims resolved, for a total of $3.5 billion in compensation. This is something that we need to continue as we work to pay Canada's overdue bills.

The main estimates also include just over $2 billion for the management and implementation of agreements and treaties, essentially transfer payments; $53 million to support first nations jurisdiction over land and fiscal management, which this committee has had an opportunity recently to study; and $194 million for the negotiation of treaties, self-government agreements and other constructive arrangements of the sort.

As part of budget 2023, our government has undertaken other investments to support indigenous peoples, including to advance economic reconciliation. For example, through the budget, the government proposes to provide $35.3 million over three years, starting this fiscal year, to Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada and Natural Resources Canada to co-develop, with the Lands Advisory Board, a new first nations-led national land registry that will provide communities in first nation land management with more opportunities to realize the economic benefits arising from local control over their lands.

Along with these important investments, budget 2023 proposes to invest funds to continue implementing the work of the missing and murdered indigenous women, girls and 2SLGBTQQIA+ people national action plan.

As we approach June 3, which is the anniversary of the launch of the national action plan on missing and murdered indigenous women, girls and LGBTQ people, it is important to highlight that these new investments will support the government's ongoing work to end this crisis.

This funding will help to support families and survivors, while heeding their call for increased accountability. Here are some examples of those investments.

The government will invest $2.6 million over three years, starting in 2023‑24, to support the National Family and Survivors Circle in keeping families and survivors at the centre of the implementation of the national action plan and the Federal Pathway to Address Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women, Girls and 2SLGBTQQIA+ People.

The government will also invest $2.2 million over five years, starting in 2023‑24, to establish an oversight mechanism to monitor, and report on, the progress of implementation.

In addition, the government will invest $1.6 million over two years to support the ministerial special representative appointed to provide advice and recommendations on the creation of an indigenous and human rights ombudsperson.

Furthermore, the government will invest $2.5 million over five years, beginning this year, to facilitate and coordinate work on advancing the national action plan by establishing a standing federal-provincial-territorial-indigenous table on missing and murdered indigenous women, girls and LGBTQ+ people. This table will provide a specific forum to take action on areas of shared roles and responsibilities regarding missing and murdered indigenous women, girls and LGBTQ+ people, including prioritizing discussion on how to launch a “red dress alert” to notify the public when an indigenous woman or two-spirit person goes missing.

These and other expenditures reflect our government's commitment to reconciliation with first nations, Inuit and Métis. I recognize, at the same time, that there is a tremendous amount more work to do.

Thank you for the opportunity to provide you with a broad-brush-stroke overview of the estimates. I welcome any questions that you surely have.

Meegwetch. Qujannamiik. Marsi. Thank you. Merci.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jenica Atwin]

Thank you very much.

We'll now move to our first round of questions, beginning with Mr. Zimmer for six minutes.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Words matter.

My questions are for Minister Vandal.

This is from Nunakput MLA Jackie Jacobson, who recently said, “[W]e're really hurting.... Single mothers are having to choose to buy Pampers or pay their cell bill, or pay their power bill, or pay to buy food, and people are going without.”

I'm going to refer to an article that was done by Cabin Radio not that long ago, on March 30 of this year. It was just a couple of months ago.

You insisted, when interviewed, that federal changes to the carbon tax, which were the subject of extraordinary division in the NWT legislature that week, a few months ago, were “not going to cost any families, anywhere in Canada, any more.”

We know that simply isn't true, Mr. Vandal. We know from the Parliamentary Budget Officer that it varies between provinces from $1,000 all the way up to $4,200 per family. I can only imagine that in the territories it's even worse.

Do you stand by your statement?

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

We are actually very conscious of the affordability issues with all Canadians, including those living in the north, which is why we brought forward a host of affordability measures in the last budget—

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

I'm sorry, Minister. The question was whether you would stand by that statement.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

—including the grocery rebate. We've brought forward an entire host of affordability measures.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

I'll move on to my next question.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

On the carbon tax—

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

You actually just mentioned the grocery—

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

Are you going to give me time to answer?

[The Chair, Liberal, Jenica Atwin]

Mr. Zimmer, we'd like to hear the answer.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

You're not answering the question. I asked you whether you're going to stand by the statement.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jenica Atwin]

He's getting to it.

Mr. Vandal.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

That's your opinion.

It's well documented that every province and every territory in the comment—

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

The Parliamentary Budget Officer made it very clear that it was not—

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

Every territory and every province in the country receives a rebate equal or greater than—

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

I'm sorry, Madam Speaker, but I have the floor. It's my time.

I'd like to get some time back if this keeps going.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jenica Atwin]

Mr. Vandal, can you answer his direct question? Then he can move on to his next one.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Are you going to stand by your statement that it's not impacting northerners more than they're getting back?

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

Every province, every territory and every individual receives a rebate. That is to offset the increased use of the carbon tax. I understand the north has special circumstances—

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

I take that as a “no”, because it's not an explicit answer.

I'll go to this interview, because the interviewer asked you some great questions in good context.

You just mentioned the grocery rebate.

Reading from them, the interviewer says, “[T]here's a few hundred bucks in the form of that one-off rebate. There are northerners who might say, 'Look, that's half of one grocery trip up here.' What else are you going to do to help people really make ends meet, because that alone, up here? It's a drop in a bucket.”

You're talking about a lot of measures, and it's a lot of hollow words, especially if you're somebody from the Northwest Territories, Yukon or Nunavut.

What are you going to say to them that's really going to help pay the bills? I just quoted a member who said that single mothers are hurting up there. They're having to decide between paying their heating bills in the winter, buying diapers or paying for food.

Words just don't cut it. What are you going to actually do to make sure you're stepping up to the plate and delivering on what you promised to northerners?

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

We were in Inuvik last October. We announced $163 million of new money for the nutrition north funding program, including an increased subsidy rate for nutritious foods in Northwest Territories and—