Evidence of meeting #68 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was lands.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Sean Willy  President and Chief Executive Officer, Des Nedhe Group
Harold Calla  Executive Chair, First Nations Financial Management Board
Allan Polchies  St. Mary's First Nation

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Jenica Atwin

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to the 68th meeting of the Standing Committee on Indigenous and Northern Affairs.

Today's meeting is being held in hybrid form, pursuant to the House order adopted on Thursday, June 23, 2022. Committee members can participate in person or via the Zoom application. The proceedings will be published on the House of Commons website. For your information, the webcast will always show the person speaking, rather than the entire committee.

For those participating virtually, I would like to outline a few rules to follow.

You may speak in the official language of your choice. Interpretation services are available for this meeting in French, English and Inuktitut. You have the choice, at the bottom of your screen, of floor, English or French. Please select your language now. If interpretation is lost, please inform me immediately and we will ensure that interpretation is properly restored before resuming the proceedings.

For members participating in person, proceed as you usually would when the whole committee is meeting in person in a committee room.

Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. If you are on the video conference, please click on the microphone icon to unmute yourself. For those in the room, your mike will be controlled as usual by the proceedings and verification officer.

I'd like to remind you that you must address the chair.

When speaking, please speak slowly and clearly. When you are not speaking, your mike should be on mute.

With regard to a speaking list, the committee clerk and I will do the best we can to maintain a consolidated order of speaking for all members, whether they are participating virtually or in person.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on November 21, 2022, the committee is resuming its study of land restitution for first nations, Inuit and Métis peoples.

Today, on our first panel, we welcome Sean Willy, president and CEO of Des Nedhe Group; Harold Calla, executive chair of the First Nations Financial Management Board; and Sakom Allan Polchies of St. Mary’s First Nation.

Thank you so much for joining us this afternoon. You will each have five minutes for your introductory comments, and we'll begin with Mr. Willy.

4:35 p.m.

Sean Willy President and Chief Executive Officer, Des Nedhe Group

Good afternoon. It is my great pleasure to be here this afternoon with you to provide my words around how Canada can support innovative and sustainable solutions to provide restitution of land to first nations, Inuit and Métis peoples across Canada.

First, let me recognize that today I am speaking on the unceded traditional lands of the Algonquin people.

Let me introduce myself and provide some context for why I'm here today.

My name is Sean Willy and I am both a Denesuline and a fifth-generation Canadian. I'm a member of the Deninu K'ue First Nation, which is located in the Northwest Territories. In my professional career, I am the president and CEO of the Des Nedhe Group, which is the English River First Nation's economic development corporation.

Of most importance to me is where I come from. I was born and raised throughout Canada's north. Born in Inuvik, Northwest Territories, I've lived in Fort McPherson, Rankin Inlet, Nunavut and Yellowknife, Northwest Territories. I grew up in a family with a Métis-Dene mother and a mining executive father.

I'm proud to say that I started in the gold mines of the Northwest Territories as a local indigenous hire. Why did they hire me? Well, the resource companies were forced to hire local indigenous people as part of their permits, so I began a long and healthy career in the resource industry.

English River First Nation has also had a long working history in the resource industry with the uranium mining industry in northern Saskatchewan. As with any relationship, it has its ongoing partnerships' ups and downs, but what English River saw was opportunity. The community leaders saw that the world wanted and needed the world-class uranium deposits found on their traditional lands. They knew they could support this development and better their communities through the creation of businesses geared to work with uranium mining companies. Over the past 30 years, this has evolved into Des Nedhe Group, one of the most progressive tier one first nation-owned and driven entities in Canada.

Des Nedhe is composed of many distinctive business drivers. The heart of Des Nedhe is its industrial division, which was born out of our interactions with the northern Saskatchewan resource industry. This includes Des Nedhe's first company, Tron Construction and Mining; our civil earthmoving company, Neetah Construction; and our underground mine builder, Mudjatik Thyssen, which is one of the most innovative partnerships in the country.

We have strong retail and property divisions, which contain the busiest Petro-Canadas in the province of Saskatchewan, multiple other gas stations, convenience stores, grocery stores and one of Canada's few liquor stores located on first nation reserve lands, which is in Saskatoon. Des Nedhe also owns multiple investment opportunities, from steel fabrication companies to trucking partnerships and marketing and communications firms. However, one of the most exciting entities we own, govern and manage is English River's land development opportunities.

One question posed within this standing committee is this: How can we undertake a study on the restitution of land to first nations, Inuit and Métis peoples? Of special interest is how this could lead to economic development and growth opportunities across Canada.

I can't dive into solving the whole issue in five minutes, so I'm happy to answer any questions, but I will share with you English River and Des Nedhe's story of how they secured additional lands to help promote economic development.

English River's leadership was and still is very pragmatic when it comes to life and business. English River leadership took advantage of the outstanding leadership among Saskatchewan first nation groups when they all pushed for past wrongs when it comes to land entitlement. The creation of the treaty land entitlement process and programs in Saskatchewan in the late nineties fixed these past wrongs for communities such as English River. English River was provided the opportunity financially to purchase additional acres of allocated Crown and private lands to make up for misallocations of reserve lands when the treaty was signed.

English River did not sit idle. They secured thousands of acres in their traditional hunting, trapping and fishing lands in northern Saskatchewan. They then purchased additional lands south of the city of Saskatoon strictly for economic development purposes. Thus, the Grasswoods reserve was born. They were planning ahead to help them create future revenue centres that would accentuate their northern resource revenues. This was done in the late nineties.

Des Nedhe was tasked with developing the Grasswoods economic development lands. Saskatoon, over this 20-year period, has now grown adjacent to the Grasswoods reserve, but the city never planned on supporting the reserve lands, so no services have been provided over the last 20 years, such as infrastructure for sewage and waste-water piping. When we discussed this with the city in 2018, they advised that they would not be building infrastructure out our way for the next 40 years.

At Des Nedhe, we took matters into our own hands. We applied for funding from Indigenous Services Canada to build our own high-technology waste-water treatment facility and secured $2.3 million. We then approached, and negotiated and signed an agreement with, the Canada Infrastructure Bank to finance the development of that facility and others that were needed to finish the infrastructure off. Last, we partnered with the local rural municipality of Corman Park to agree to work together and allow them access to our infrastructure, thus supporting each other's growth and creating a long-term revenue driver for the first nation.

These partnerships highlight what can be done to unlock the potential of first nation lands when we create the right value proposition. In this example, everybody wins. The rural municipality wins with the higher tax assessment rates now that the lands are serviced by a first nation. Local developers win because they can sell smaller lots at higher value due to not needing to sell large land sizes for septic fields. The local landowners win, as their land values have gone up in price because of first nation involvement. The environment wins because we are moving away from lagoons or septic fields, which are predominant in Saskatchewan, to a state-of-the-art waste-water treatment facility.

English River, through proactive and pragmatic leadership, is securing additional lands and has set up a very strong example of how to reclaim your lands for the betterment of your first nation. They have created a truly leading-edge practice. They are the only first nation that owns urban lands ready for long-term urban development, and control some of the richest lands full of the high-grade uranium needed to power a clean-energy transition.

Thank you very much.

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Jenica Atwin

Thank you, Mr. Willy.

We'll now proceed to Mr. Calla.

The floor is yours for five minutes.

4:40 p.m.

Harold Calla Executive Chair, First Nations Financial Management Board

Thank you.

Thank you for the invitation to appear before you today.

The restitution of land is a deeply important part of reconciliation. A strong connection to our land is part of the values that define who we are as indigenous people in Canada.

According to a study released two months ago by the Environics Institute, 81% of Canadians see inadequate indigenous control over their lands and resources—

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Jenica Atwin

Excuse me, Mr. Calla. I'm so sorry, but I have to interrupt you.

Ms. Gill wishes to make a point of order.

4:40 p.m.

Bloc

Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'm also sorry to interrupt Mr. Calla. The interpreter informs me that the sound quality is insufficient to interpret.

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Jenica Atwin

We're going to briefly suspend while we check with interpretation.

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Jenica Atwin

I'm sorry about that, Mr. Calla. We're going to try again.

Can you start from the top? We'll see if the sound quality is any better.

4:45 p.m.

Executive Chair, First Nations Financial Management Board

Harold Calla

Okay.

Thank you for having me here today.

The restitution of land is a deeply important part of reconciliation. A strong connection to our land is part of the values that define who we are as indigenous people in Canada.

According to a study released two months ago by the Environics Institute, 81% of Canadians see—

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Jenica Atwin

I'm so sorry, Mr. Calla, but I have to interrupt you again. We don't have interpretation.

We will go to Sakom Polchies, and then we'll return to you, Mr. Calla. I'm sorry about that.

Go ahead, Mr. Polchies.

4:45 p.m.

Bloc

Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC

Excuse me, Madam Chair.

Were the sound tests successful earlier?

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Jenica Atwin

Yes, Ms. Gill.

Chief Polchies, you have the floor for five minutes.

4:45 p.m.

Chief Allan Polchies St. Mary's First Nation

'Qey. Ntoliwis nil Chief Allan Polchies. Nuceyaw nil Sitansisk, St. Mary's First Nation, in Fredericton, New Brunswick. Woliwon for having me here today.

St. Mary's First Nation, Sitansisk, is a Wolastoqiyik community under the peace and friendship treaties. St. Mary's First Nation, Sitansisk, also currently operates under the Indian Act and the Addition of Lands to Reserves and Reserve Creation Act to acquire and add lands to our land base—

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Jenica Atwin

I'm so sorry, Chief Polchies, but I have to interrupt you as well. We're having technical difficulties.

Just hold on if you can. I know that your time is valuable. We'll get back to you as soon as we can.

4:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Jenica Atwin

I call the meeting back to order.

Thank you very much for bearing with me, everyone. We will resume the meeting.

Mr. Calla and Chief Polchies, we're going to try one more time. We're going to give Mr. Calla the floor for five minutes. We'll return to you, Sakom Polchies, after that.

Unfortunately, if the sound does not work this time around, we'll have to work to reschedule, if possible. We're going to take one more crack at it. The third time's the charm.

Mr. Calla, you have five minutes. The floor is yours.

4:50 p.m.

Executive Chair, First Nations Financial Management Board

Harold Calla

Thank you for having me here today.

The restitution of land is a deeply important part of reconciliation. A strong connection to our land is part of the values that define who we are as indigenous peoples in Canada.

According to a study released two months ago by the Environics Institute, 81% of Canadians see inadequate indigenous control over their lands and resources as a barrier to reconciliation. More and more Canadians are seeing the need for indigenous communities to have more jurisdiction over their traditional territories. It should be noted that Canada sees reconciliation as part of its action plan to implement UNDRIP.

However, we need to understand that the transfer of land alone will not bring improvements to our communities. Canada must be prepared to invest in resources and indigenous-led responses to managing our traditional territories. We will need to build support to build capacity in our communities and increase indigenous jurisdiction over our traditional territories.

The public service needs to facilitate, support and help with this transfer to indigenous communities. I often speak to FMB staff and ask them to have an image in their minds of a young girl growing up in a northern remote first nations reserve. How does what we do improve her life and help her to fulfill her dreams and goals, and the dreams and goals of her community?

I think that's part of a vision that we have to keep in mind as we consider these matters. You can't develop healthy, sustainable indigenous communities, in keeping with UNDRIP, unless you have land and jurisdiction over it. You need to be recognized as a government with the appropriate powers and fiscal capacity.

In the few minutes I have here, there are a few things I want the committee to consider.

First nations increasingly look to expand their communities to respond to growing populations and new economic opportunities. Irregular boundaries, such as the ones I experienced in Attawapiskat, are a situation when one home may be on the reserve but the same space on the other side is not. We are simply out of space in many of our communities to construct homes and meet the needs of those communities.

The need for a focus on expanding indigenous reserves to drive economic development is important, particularly in urban centres like Ottawa, Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver and Saskatchewan—

4:55 p.m.

Bloc

Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC

Madam Chair, I'm sorry, but I have to intervene once again.

4:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Jenica Atwin

Mr. Calla, I'm so sorry. There's a point of order.

4:55 p.m.

Bloc

Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I waited, but twice the interpreter pointed out that the sound was too poor to interpret. Out of concern for the people who help us understand, I preferred to tell you again.

Thank you.

4:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Jenica Atwin

Mr. Calla and Sakom Polchies, the clerk will be in touch to reschedule your appearances. I'm so sorry, again, for the inconvenience. Our interpreters are very important to us, and we need to make sure we have proper sound quality.

Perhaps we could arrange for you to come in person, if you prefer, but we'll follow up for sure on those details. Thank you very much.

At this time, committee members, we will proceed with Mr. Willy. For our first round of questions, we have Mr. Vidal.

You have six minutes.

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

Gary Vidal Conservative Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Willy, for being here.

Before we get into the crux of the conversation today, Mr. Willy, I want to begin by acknowledging the role that the first nation you work with, through the economic development arm, as you identified, Des Nedhe Group.... You own a grocery store right up at The Forks at Beauval. In the midst of all the fires in northern Saskatchewan, your grocery store was pretty significant in the role it played. Its food security contribution during the fires in the last several weeks was not only for the people who live there, but for fire crews, the SaskPower people and the people involved in the evacuation.

Could you take a minute, quickly, and speak to how important it is to have a local business like that present at the time of an emergency situation like we saw in northern Saskatchewan over the last few weeks and are still seeing?

4:55 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Des Nedhe Group

Sean Willy

Yes. Thank you, Mr. Vidal, for the question.

That is located on first nation lands that we obtained through treaty land entitlement. Again, it goes to the community's viewpoint about creating economic development through land purchases. They created the largest grocery store at a very important juncture in northern Saskatchewan. The highway leads up to Clearwater, La Loche, Buffalo Narrows, Buffalo River first nation and Canoe Lake.

We learned through COVID that this store was very important. We had to keep it open during COVID to support the families in northern Saskatchewan. I think they are so well versed. When we called them at 12 that morning to keep the store open because there was a flood of people leaving Buffalo Narrows and Île-à-la-Crosse, they were very happy to help.

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

Gary Vidal Conservative Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK

Thank you for that.

Committee members, if you ever get a chance to visit northern Saskatchewan, you should go and see this incredible store. It's pretty cool.

I want to pursue your discussion around the Grasswoods Urban Reserve a bit, Mr. Willy. You talked about the contribution that English River First Nation is doing there, especially in the context of building the new waste-water treatment facility that will not only enable you to build upon the current infrastructure, but also benefit the neighbouring rural municipality of Corman Park, which you also talked about.

There was a media release that you were part of when this project was announced. I want to read a quote and then ask you a quick question. It says:

Innovative business ventures like the one we're creating between Des Nedhe Group, English River First Nation and our partners have the power to not just drive revenue in the short term, but most importantly, support long-term self-determination for the community. At Grasswoods Urban Reserve, we're leading the way with progressive environmental technologies and creating a sustainable future where economic success and environmental stewardship go hand in hand.

In my opinion, Mr. Willy, this is just another great example of economic reconciliation. What gets lost sometimes when we talk about these things is the good-news stories about what that contributes to not only the people on the ground right in the area around this urban reserve, but the people back in the English River First Nation.

Can you explain the impact of the development you've done in the Grasswoods Urban Reserve, including the waste-water treatment facility and the development there, and what that means to the people of English River First Nation?

4:55 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Des Nedhe Group

Sean Willy

I'm very happy to, Mr. Vidal.

They secured that land 20-plus years ago through treaty land entitlement. Because the city and, at the time, the RM were quite frightened that a first nation was buying land around Saskatoon, everyone was paralyzed and they didn't want to help the community. It had such potential. We've seen such great examples across the country, with Tsuut'ina in Calgary, Enoch in Edmonton, and Tseil-Waututh, Musqueam and Squamish in Vancouver. English River had a very strong asset there, but without any services it was never going to go anywhere.

When I came in, what we had to do was.... How could we unlock the value of this land's potential? The current government had a very strong policy towards supporting waste-water infrastructure on first nation reserves, so we were happy to access funding through that stream to get this going.

What we found out, though, was that with our sovereign rights on our lands, first nations could, by building this type of infrastructure, add value to other stakeholders within the region. Saskatoon is quite motivated to build on the lands they own in the north end of the city, and we're not interested in investing in infrastructure on the south side of Saskatoon. The RM of Corman Park was and the landowners of southern Saskatoon were, so you saw a first nation coming in and solving a problem for a region.

This will create own-source revenue for English River. It will create urban employment for urban members. Like many northern first nations, we're seeing a lot of migration to the urban centres for education, so this offers a chance to develop these lands and to put in gathering places for our Dene members in Saskatoon, which is primarily a Plains Cree community.

As to own-source revenue, I mentioned pragmatism. I think the government should understand that there's so much money within indigenous economic reconciliation right now that I could travel the country and go to conferences. However, what's it really doing to the grassroots? Our leadership is always very pragmatic: You need own-source revenue to control your self-determination. We've seen this in the Northwest Territories and we've seen this in northern Alberta, northern B.C. and northern Saskatchewan. This will just spur further own-source revenue so they can then journey on their own path to self-determination, unfettered by operational financing from Indigenous Services.

5 p.m.

Conservative

Gary Vidal Conservative Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK

Thank you.

Quickly, for the committee's sake, I want you to talk about the geography a bit. We talked about the English River First Nation. You talked about the store at Beauval. Now we're talking about the Grasswood Esso. Give them a sense of the distances and geography we're talking about here.