Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Nov. 28th, 2023

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

The rights to internal governance, though.... The assumption from AFN is that if we are going to give people rights to governance, we're also going to give them rights to land. We're just inconsistent with what we've done in places like Qalipu—

[Julie McGregor]

No. That's not what we said. We said that from our perspective, we don't understand how you can bifurcate the two, because that's not an indigenous perspective. Again, “internal governance” is not included in the wording of this legislation.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

I think all of the stakeholders have said this is about internal jurisdiction; that's what the purpose of this is, under the purpose of this act. I guess the question—

[Julie McGregor]

Are first nations supposed to take the word of the stakeholders who were involved in this process, when they themselves were not a part of the process?

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

I guess the question would then be what the amendments are that you're asking for.

[Julie McGregor]

If this is just about internal governance, the legislation should say that.

The position of the AFN and the mandate of the AFN is to request that the entirety of the legislation be withdrawn until there is a consultation process that accords with the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples on free, prior and informed consent, as well as the duty to consult, because that did not take place.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

If the roles were reversed and we were doing first nations legislation, would we need to consult with the Métis and Inuit before internal governance under AFN or first nations was approved?

[Julie McGregor]

If we take Bill C-92 as an example, the child welfare legislation, I believe they were consulted. Bill C-92 is actually a really good example of the difference with first nations. Bill C-92 recognizes the jurisdiction and inherent right of first nations to their children, and that was limited to children.

We are currently awaiting a decision of the Supreme Court of Canada on whether Quebec's challenge to that legislation will be upheld. That just shows you the stark difference in terms of what first nations have to prove and the legal challenges they have to manoeuvre in order to have their inherent rights and jurisdiction recognized.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Thank you.

Madame Gill, are you there and ready to go with your questions?

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Yes, I'm with you.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

All right.

You have the floor for six minutes.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm not with you in the room, but I'm with you in spirit.

I thank all the witnesses for being here.

I have questions for Ms. Bernard and Ms. McGregor from the Assembly of First Nations. Mr. Browning could answer them as well.

In her opening statement, Ms. Bernard referred to the principles of reconciliation. I don't want to put words in her mouth, but she said that the bill contravened the very principles of reconciliation.

Ms. Bernard, I'd like you to elaborate on the fact that it would contravene these principles.

[Joanna Bernard]

I don't have my translation on. I do understand French, but regarding the question itself, I wasn't quite sure, Madame Gill.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

May I, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Perhaps we can get Madame Gill to rephrase her question, or if you want to use the interpretation, there is an option on your screen. You are able to select floor audio, English or French.

[Joanna Bernard]

I see.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

If you want to try that, I've stopped the clock until we sort out the translation issue. I can get Madame Gill to restate her question, and then we'll continue with the timing. There are five minutes left.

Do you want to try a different language, or shall we get Madame Gill to rephrase the question in French, and then we'll carry on?

[Joanna Bernard]

I believe Julie is in the room, so maybe we'll go to legal counsel, if she understood the question. That would be easier.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Are you good to go, Ms. McGregor?

[Julie McGregor]

Yes. As I understand the question, it's how this legislation goes against the principles of reconciliation. As the interim national chief said in her opening remarks, we were not consulted on this legislation beforehand. This is the first opportunity we've actually had to voice concerns from the first nations perspective.

There's also the fact that there is no mechanism for dispute resolution with respect to overlapping claims of Métis and first nations rights. This is very much a situation of the government pitting indigenous groups against each other, and that is very much against reconciliation.

From our perspective, reconciliation means that the government takes responsibility for what it has done, implements the existing treaties of first nations, and recognizes the rights and title of first nations rights holders. That is part of reconciliation, and it seems in many ways that the first nations have to go through an abundance of processes, parliamentary among them, to have those rights recognized. Then, in the sweep of a pen in this legislation, very broadly worded Métis rights—the inherent right to self-government—are provided.

First nations are nowhere near the table when this is being discussed. That goes against reconciliation. “Nothing about us without us” is an important part of reconciliation, and we need to be at the table when those decisions are being discussed and made.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Thank you.

Ms. Bernard, would you like to add anything? If not, I'll move on to another question, which also concerns your presentation.

You used a term that we've heard several times on the committee, “inequity.” Would it be possible for you to give us examples of inequity between first nations and Métis?

[Joanna Bernard]

I believe that, in reference to reconciliation and moving forward, it's not fair, as stated by Ms. McGregor.

I want to note another example.

In our first nations communities, after a second generation of one native parent and one non-native parent, we lose our rights. This becomes a huge issue. Ask every Canadian. Fifty per cent of Canadians are going to say they're Métis—that they're half aboriginal or descendants. My concern, at the end of the day, is about the money that will be used for indigenous people in Canada to ensure they are direct descendants, not 10 generations down. It's not fair to us. We have to stop after the second generation. Our children are not recognized. Where is the fairness in that?

There's no accountability for membership under the Métis. I truly believe they have rights, but to what extent? Are you going to put half of Canada on their list?

Thank you.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Thank you, Ms. Bernard.

Mr. Browning, if you wish, I invite you to speak on the two issues I've addressed, reconciliation and inequity.

[Dr. Adam Browning]

The roots of both of those words have reconciliation qualities. They're process words. They involve the act of reconciliation and reciprocal accountability between both parties. At no point have I or my community been consulted on this process. We feel as if, notwithstanding what UNDRIP states.... It's just about common sense and reaching a place where we have a voice. We wrote letters to the previous minister of Crown-indigenous relations and the Prime Minister several times, without even...an acknowledgement in response. The last time we wrote was in February 2023.

I represent several thousand Métis in southern Alberta. We care about what our registry looks like and who claims to be Métis. We also care that we're spoken to. At no point did we even get an acknowledgement in response. None of that speaks to equality or reconciliation, from my perspective.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Thank you.

That takes us to the end of your six minutes, Madame Gill.

I'm now going to move to Ms. Idlout.

When you're ready, the floor is yours for six minutes.