Evidence of meeting #98 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was report.
A video is available from Parliament.
5:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John Aldag
I'm sorry, but just before you answer, I'll note that that's the end of the six minutes, so I'll give you a brief opportunity to respond, but then we will need to go to Ms. Idlout.
5:45 p.m.
Correctional Investigator of Canada, Office of the Correctional Investigator of Canada
The answer is yes. In my opinion, there should definitely be more such commitments, commitments that are more respectful of indigenous communities.
5:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John Aldag
Thank you, Monsieur Lemire.
Ms. Idlout, it's over to you now for your six minutes.
February 28th, 2024 / 5:45 p.m.
NDP
Lori Idlout NDP Nunavut, NU
Qujannamiik, Iksivautaq.
Thank you, Chair, and thank you to both witnesses for appearing today. I very much appreciate your report, because you highlighted the injustices that indigenous people continue to experience. I really hope that not just this committee but all parliamentarians read this important report, because you address a lot of things, including intergenerational trauma. You address the impacts of colonial and genocidal policies on indigenous people, and you provide very good recommendations to try to transform our justice system so that we do start seeing a reduction in the overrepresentation of indigenous people in this very oppressive system.
I wanted to just commend you on your great work.
I note, in the report you gave us, “Ten Years since Spirit Matters”, when you show us the data about the healing lodges, there are 10 healing lodges that you've listed, and out of those 10 lodges only two have seen 100% occupation. The rest have either been not reportable or seen lower incidences of occupation. I wonder if you could explain to us how that kind of result has come to be.
Is it, for example, that there is not enough information given to indigenous communities about the existence of these programming dollars to offer healing lodges? That kind of information would be super helpful.
5:50 p.m.
Correctional Investigator of Canada, Office of the Correctional Investigator of Canada
I'm sorry, are you talking about the rate of occupancy of the various healing lodges? Is that what you meant?
5:50 p.m.
NDP
Lori Idlout NDP Nunavut, NU
I think so, because in your report, on page 10, it says that the Waseskun Healing Centre is 100% occupied. The Willow Cree Healing Centre is 100% occupied. Why would all of these other healing lodges not be 100% occupied, if there's such an overrepresentation of indigenous people in the justice system?
5:50 p.m.
Correctional Investigator of Canada, Office of the Correctional Investigator of Canada
That's an excellent question. We were as puzzled as you are.
If you have 4,500 indigenous prisoners in federal corrections and you have only 139 beds, how come those beds are not full? It's the same with respect to the CSC-operated healing lodges, with the capacity of 250. When we looked at it overall, I think those beds were 75% occupied. We raised the question, why not 100%?
When we did some of the work that we did, we found that the healing lodges are wanting more residents. They are accepting on paper more residents. Unfortunately, Correctional Service isn't sending them.
There is now a really troubling trend. Minimum-security institutions run by corrections are now competing with healing lodges, which, by law, are considered minimum-security institutions. It's very unfortunate. Unless corrections is pushed to do more and to do better, the situation's going to remain the same. It's exactly what we found in 2013.
Hazel has visited so many healing lodges over the years.
5:50 p.m.
Deputy Director, Indigenous Portfolio, Office of the Correctional Investigator of Canada
There are a lot of fellas who are still maintained in medium security. A lot of them are not being reviewed to be transferred to healing lodges. There seem to be barriers every time they want to be transferred. They'll transfer from a medium facility to a Pathways facility, and finally they might get an opportunity to go to a healing lodge.
The criteria are very hard to access for some of the fellas and the women. That's an issue. I think the criteria need to be reviewed to take into consideration realistic criteria from an indigenous perspective, and not from a CSC type of perspective.
5:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John Aldag
We're pretty much out of time on this one. Thank you.
Unfortunately, we are going to have to wind up at this point.
I'm looking at my clock. We have 15 minutes before the vote, which would put us at about 10 past. The vote is 10 minutes and then we need to allow 10 minutes to get back, which is going to take us to 6:30. I know many of the members have indicated that they have events they're either hosting or need to attend this evening by 6:30, so with apologies to our guests, we are going to have to end it at this point.
We do really appreciate your coming in on such short notice and for the thoroughness of the report you've given us. I think it will give our committee many things to discuss. Thank you so much for your persistence in flagging some of these very important issues to the government and to our committee members.
Colleagues, when we come back in a couple of weeks in March, the first meeting is going to be on the Supreme Court decision. I'm going to allow 90 minutes for that, and then we'll move the committee business to the last 30 minutes of that meeting. On the Wednesday, we have the ministers coming to discuss the supplementary (C)s. That's the plan.
For today, we will end. I wish everybody a good couple of weeks at home. We'll see you back here in March.
The meeting is adjourned.
