Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Dec. 10th, 2025

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes, ON]

That was over a minute. I think I was more than fair, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Yes, we'll give you a couple more seconds, but I'm going to let the minister finish.

[Mandy Gull-Masty, Liberal, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

I do want to answer the entirety of your question.

This department has grown in budget. This department has grown in terms of service. This department has grown because it has done a thorough analysis of the entirety of the needs of trying to bring community into a space. There are some communities that need additional support or extended support. There are some communities that have shifted and want to ensure that they're introducing new measures.

While you may not agree with the size or the growth of this department, or while you may not agree that it is...I don't want to say proper spending, because I don't think that kind of language is necessary in this discussion or reflective of what should be put on the table.... We are required and should morally want, as a government, to respond to the needs of first nations in this country, because they have been harmed historically, even before the Conservative government. They have responded to historical injustices. They have responded to instances. They still continue to suffer from the harm that was perpetuated towards them.

I do want to be fair, and I do want to be respectful, but I want to ensure that the entirety of the question is responded to in the greater context.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Thank you.

Go ahead, MP Schmale.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes, ON]

I will be reclaiming my time. Thank you, Chair.

Let's go back on that point where you talked about coming out of 2015. You can make that claim. That's fine, but no meaningful improvement has been made, according to the Auditor General.

In housing, it says right here in the paragraph that there was no meaningful improvement in housing conditions in first nations communities from 2015 to 2022. There was zero meaningful improvement, despite the fact that you're sitting here saying that it might have been a bad time there, but now it's much better. Well, no, it's not. The fact that you're saying that we're going to give quality services is fine, but most nations don't want more services.

You're a respected indigenous leader yourself. How many times were you talking about new services or new programs rather than direct funding to nations themselves to make their own self-determination?

[Gina Wilson]

The member is right that the number of employees at ISC as of March 31 was 8,619 FTEs. Also, now with the staffing cap and very prudent staffing decisions, the number has been reduced to 8,076 employees. In fact, the number is trending downward. I would just say that.

We also have significant results in many areas. In fact, we have a giant placemat here with all kinds of data, outcomes, indicators and exceptional results that may not have been well reflected in the OAG report but are outside and with everything else. We can go through all of those achievements if you'd like, but we probably wouldn't have the time.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes, ON]

Thank you, Ms. Wilson. I appreciate that. Thank you for answering, but that wasn't my question.

Minister Gull-Masty, the question stands.

[Mandy Gull-Masty, Liberal, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you.

You might ask the question about there being zero progress, but I do not agree.

I reject the premise of the question, because there are many communities across the country that have benefited from the funding programs that existed, which are also reflected in this budget. They are undertaking and developing for themselves new home ownership, movements towards mortgage and movements towards building, ensuring that their community is able to implement and determine what its infrastructure looks like.

I've visited many of these communities. I am from a nation that is one of those communities.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes, ON]

It says here in the Auditor General's report that—

[Mandy Gull-Masty, Liberal, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

I'm not able to understand where you say there is zero progress.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes, ON]

—“the percentage of homes in need of major repairs”—

[Mandy Gull-Masty, Liberal, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

We are doing the work to ensure that we are able to meet the community in the space they're in.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes, ON]

—“the percentage of homes in First Nations communities that needed to be replaced increased from 5.6% to 6.5%.”

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

I've added about a minute and 50 seconds, so I'm going to move on. We'll have more opportunities to ask questions.

PS Jaime, you have five minutes.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso—Antigonish, NS]

Thank you, Chair.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes, ON]

I'm sorry, Chair. What was that?

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

We added almost two minutes to that exchange there. The clerk was keeping time. It was a minute and 50-something seconds.

We're going to move on. There's another round of questions for the Conservatives. Thank you.

Jaime, go ahead, please. Thank you.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso—Antigonish, NS]

Thank you for joining us here today, Minister.

I know you had a really busy week last week, with several first nations from all across Canada coming to Ottawa for the AFN annual general assembly. I'm sure it was something for them to see a minister of Indigenous Services Canada with lived experience of being first nations but also having been a leader herself at one point. I'm sure they talked to you a lot about the different priorities they had.

You mentioned in your opening statement that we're developing an action plan to better address some of the things moving forward. I'm wondering if you could share with us some of the concerns you heard and what our government is doing to move forward with the action plan in contemplation of what it has said.

[Mandy Gull-Masty, Liberal, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you, MP Battiste.

Last week was an exceptional week for me. I had the opportunity to meet with many of the people we are serving. In addition, I was able to also meet with some of the new young and emerging leaders, youth who are filling the space. I was really proud to see them participating at the AFN assembly, making statements and advocating for youth needs.

We heard three things. We really wanted to ensure that when we met with partners, we were able to identify with them what the budget was going to offer. We heard many concerns with what was going on with water legislation. We heard enormous feedback in terms of being really happy that the Prime Minister was there to speak to the tabling of that legislation in the spring. We heard a lot of discussion around housing. I'm sure I will be asked a question, so I'll save that portion of the response for your colleague who will continue with housing later.

I heard a lot of feedback in terms of the statements made by the Prime Minister with regard to what he wanted to do to protect first nations in this period of time in which we are under great pressure economically. We also heard that there was a lot of anticipation of what the transformation will look like at ISC. We have been working and actively engaging with partners to frame how we want to transition at ISC.

It's not only about trying to ensure we are offering a better quality service. It's also about transforming and modernizing within ISC. We underwent a comprehensive review process. We were able to identify areas where we could offer better services. We were able to identify areas where we could augment.

I'll ask my deputy to speak to some of the modernization and some of the action plans we're looking to present later on.

[Gina Wilson]

I'll be brief.

I'm very proud that ISC has recently reorganized many of its sectors, operations and programs. It's more focused and more streamlined, with clear accountabilities. The minister referred to a one-window service, so better services to individuals and first nations by mail, by person, in person, by phone, etc.

We're further reorganizing regional offices to provide better services, again, to first nations communities and individuals, but also to bring more innovations in technology and more automated services.

Thanks for the opportunity to comment.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso—Antigonish, NS]

Last night, there was a National Association of Friendship Centres reception. I know that some of us in this room attended that.

I'm from a first nations reserve, but I understand the importance of urban locations like the friendship centres. There are some concerns from the friendship centres being discussed.

Could you speak to how are we prioritizing and recognizing urban supports for indigenous people in this country?

[Mandy Gull-Masty, Liberal, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

I was very pleased to meet the new leadership at the friendship centre. I was really happy to also speak with the executive director.

Clearly, it's looking for that continuity, that consistency and funding, so it can ensure that it's always reaching the objective of serving people who live off community.

That is a reality: There are some people who are leaving the community. There are some people who wish to be in city centres to go to school or work. There is a need for that space to come together as a community. These are critical spaces.

I'm looking to ensure that when we have the follow-up dialogue of what the outcomes are going to look like for that continued funding, it is framed by and coming from them.

We had the opportunity for an exchange. I'll ask for a technical follow-up in addition to what I've said, but I'm really encouraged with what I saw and the conversations we had.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Thank you very much. If you could just follow up in writing, that would be great. We're at the end.

[Candice St-Aubin, Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Health and Social Sector, Department of Indigenous Services]

That will not be a problem.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Next, we have MP Lemire for two and a half minutes, please.