Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Feb. 24th, 2026

[Brianne Paulin]

I just want to add to President Clayton's comments.

Clause 8 of the bill provides the mandate of the commissioner. It clearly says:

(a) strengthening the relationships between the Government of Canada and Indigenous modern treaty partners;

(b) fulfilling the Government of Canada’s obligations under, and achieving the objectives of, modern treaties, these obligations and objectives being interpreted in a broad and purposive manner;

I think that's an important piece, because the courts have often said that when you look at modern treaties, you have to look at them in a broad and purposive manner and also implement them in the spirit and intent with which they were drafted.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Thank you very much. That brings us to the end of your time.

Now we will go to MP Gill for two and a half minutes, please.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

This may be my last question, and I'll turn it around.

What would be the consequences for first nations if this bill were not passed quickly?

[Eva Clayton]

Thank you.

It's a two-part answer.

The consequences of not having a commissioner are that we will continue to be faced with dispute resolution and court action. It would be best for all parties to the treaties if we had that commissioner so we could avoid all of the added costs of dispute resolution and the courts.

[Brianne Paulin]

President Clayton gave an overview of the consequences, but what's also important is that this bill was fully co-developed with modern treaty partners. The full co-development of this bill is a great example of reconciliation in action and how modern treaties can be upheld. It would be an unintended consequence if the work that was done directly with the federal government was not respected and implemented.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC]

My last question is for Ms. Clayton or Ms. Paulin.

The Supreme Court has indicated on a number of occasions that modern treaties are important. What principles do the courts keep reminding us of that would be good to remind us of here as well?

[Eva Clayton]

On the principles that the courts have for us, there are really none, because that's the other aspect of what the commissioner would do. The courts have no knowledge of the treaties. There's been no education of the courts of law when it comes to understanding the nature and authorities of the treaties. There is none.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Thank you very much. That brings us to the end.

Again, you can submit in writing to answer the question even further.

Next, we have MP Schmale for five minutes.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you again to our witnesses.

Like I said, we agree with the issues you have. What we're trying to do here on this side is improve this legislation so that if it passes—when it passes—it achieves everything you want it to achieve. Again, where we see there is a shortfall is in the enforcement part of it.

As I said before, we have tons of information on where governments of all stripes over hundreds of years have failed indigenous peoples. They haven't lived up to their word on the treaties yet. The Auditor General is an officer of Parliament or an agent of Parliament, and has tabled those reports. When we're in power, it's in the media headlines for a few weeks. When it's the Liberals, it's a couple of days or a couple of hours, maybe.

What will change? I know the commissioner is going to focus specifically on treaties. I get that. When they release the report on where the failures are, when or how will we see progress other than a report at the next cycle showing there is no progress?

[Eva Clayton]

Again, I'll give a very short answer, but in two parts.

Thank you for the question, MP Schmale.

On when or how the enforcement will work, I think it's important to note that it'll be the commissioner's job to do that, not the Auditor General's, as I said earlier. The Auditor General has a responsibility to the government for indigenous people, not necessarily the modern-day treaty groups.

[Brianne Paulin]

I'll just reiterate my earlier answer, in terms of enforcement. The purpose of the commissioner is to have the oversight and be an agent of Parliament that is independent. Again, the reports are coming directly to Parliament and this committee. It's also up to Parliament to implement those recommendations.

The commissioner will provide that independent view of how the federal government is undertaking its modern treaty activities. One example is, as President Clayton said, that there are many disputes with the Department of Fisheries and Oceans or other departments, where we have one interpretation, the federal government has another interpretation and that interpretation stands. There's no one we can turn to and ask what this obligation actually means.

Those reports are going to be invaluable to us because modern treaty implementation is a day-to-day exercise. We are implementing treaties every day. It's going to be invaluable to modern treaty partners and to the federal government. It will enhance the relationship and the implementation of those treaties.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes, ON]

Wouldn't it be fair to say that if the government is signing on the dotted line that it is going to live up to the word of the treaty, it should actually do it? We're continuing to sign these treaties, yet we have so many that haven't been lived up to. There have been failures along the way. I still don't see the government....

Politicians will sign, there will be a big ceremony and then the failures will happen after that. The politicians and the departments seem to be failing in terms of living up to this treaty. If they fail, there are no consequences. Other than being named and shamed, what happens?

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

MP Schmale, Chief Frost had her hand up. Would you like her to take a shot at that, too?

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes, ON]

Yes, I didn't see her picture, so I wasn't sure if she was still on.

[Chief Pauline Frost]

I just want to highlight that when we speak about the enforceability of Bill C-10, the accountability rests with parliamentarians. It doesn't rest with one government in power. That's the objective here.

We have the responsibility for the implementation of the recommendations that come out. The objective is independence. Ultimately, Parliament will oversee the ministers who will be essentially responsible for the action, so it's up to the parliamentarians. It wouldn't go to the government in power. That's what we're trying to get at with the—

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes, ON]

Parliament's job is to hold the executive branch to account. It will be for the executive branch, for the most part, to implement any legislation that is passed by Parliament. It's usually the governing party leading the way, unless the opposition manages to get together, in a minority situation, to make that happen. Having said that, it will be the executive branch that actually implements this.

What punishments do we have to make that happen?

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

That brings us to the end. If you could submit that in writing to the committee, we would appreciate that very much. That's for all of you, if you want to take that opportunity. Thank you.

For our last round of questioning, we have MP Lavack.

Go ahead. You have five minutes.

[Ginette Lavack, Liberal, St. Boniface—St. Vital, MB]

Good morning, everyone. Thank you very much for your testimony today.

I want to dig a bit deeper into the commissioner's mandate. People have talked about clause 8 of the bill, which specifies that its mandate is to independently assess all activities and to ensure the effective implementation of modern treaties.

In your opinion, what should the commissioner's priorities be in terms of implementing modern treaties as they set up their office and powers?

[Eva Clayton]

I'll be very brief again and then turn it over to Brianne.

The committee must understand that all the technical work on Bill C-10 has been conducted by the LCAC project technical team.

One of the matters, in terms of the commissioner's first opportunity, is to do a meet-and-greet with all the modern treaty groups to learn about and understand all of the treaties. When you think about the provisions of our treaties, although they're not cookie-cutter agreements, the issues for the commissioner will be the same. The first priority for the commissioner is to understand the obligations of that office.

[Brianne Paulin]

The commissioner will be able to set their own priorities as well to maintain that independence so that they can undertake their own reviews and investigations. The modern treaty partners can also submit requests for investigation, as well as the minister.

It's very important that they will be able to set their own agendas and determine their own priorities. The bill does specify that when appointing a commissioner, their expertise and knowledge of modern treaties also has to come into consideration before their appointment. That's going to obviously help them determine the priorities and the urgent questions that need to be addressed.

[Ginette Lavack, Liberal, St. Boniface—St. Vital, MB]

Thank you.

Chief Frost, it's great to see you again today on the screen. We met last week in Yukon.

Would you please answer the same question?

[Chief Pauline Frost]

Thank you for the opportunity.

Regarding the commissioner, with respect to priorities, if we think about our modern treaties, there's a review period. We review our agreement's efficiencies every five years. There's an obligation to set priorities on what's working and what's not working for us. We go to various departments within Canada to negotiate elements of the effective implementation of our agreements. That has to be done in good faith through a collaborative approach.

When we set the priorities, modern treaty partners need to be at the table, ensuring that urgent matters are brought forward. With respect to the priorities, they need to be determined—the number and the frequency of audits and reviews—to protect independence from political direction and to try to create independent, autonomous oversight. That's really important, as you can imagine.

We go to many different doors to negotiate effective implementation of elements of our modern-day treaties. We want to be able to go to one door, with consistent interpretation, and I think, in our view, we see it as reconciliation in action. True implementation reflects our Crown-indigenous relationship.

[Ginette Lavack, Liberal, St. Boniface—St. Vital, MB]

Finally, in your opinion, do modern treaty holders need more resources to work with the commissioner?

[Pauline Frost]

I believe so. We have an obligation. If you think about my little community of Old Crow, it's not a Vuntut Gwitchin-only community. Canada has residents in the community; citizens of Canada live in our community. Think about the elements of our agreement that speak to ensuring that every citizen is treated equal to other Canadians.

Our obligations and our commitment to Canada are to work collaboratively on all the targets of governments in power. When you think about sovereignty in the north, geopolitical pressures, 30 by 30 obligations, greenhouse gas emissions targets and a clean future, all of it will not happen without your partners at the table. A modern treaty commission will help us to oversee that, but the treaty partners also have an obligation to commit.

It not only rests on Canada but also rests on the modern treaty holders. We have an obligation to come to the table in good faith to have these conversations and discussions about efficiencies and effectiveness on balancing the economy of Canada, balancing program services for all citizens and ensuring that we essentially come to the table as accountable governments. That's our objective.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Thank you very much.

MP Morin, go ahead. You had a couple of questions.