Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on May 5th, 2026

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC]

Thank you, Senator.

I must admit that I'm also troubled by those words. I didn't know the Prime Minister had said he didn't want amendments. Obviously, as you said, that's your job—and it's ours as well. I find it troubling because, to me, this is a totally colonialist stance. As an elected official, I'm here deciding another nation's identity, yet I wouldn't want anyone telling me or my children what our identity is. That's already what we're doing.

On top of that, we're effectively creating a ban. We're directing the government, ministers, and likely the committee as well, to reject amendments. There have been consultations, as you also mentioned. We're discussing this now, but they've been going on for a long time. Everyone agrees. We have concerns regarding funding. That's the case for Chief Johnson, for example. That's normal. If there are more people, there will be needs as well.

I'd like to hear from Ms. Fraser, Ms. Slett, Mr. Havill and Mr. Johnson on this subject.

Do you think we're ready to vote on the amendments, which reflect first nations' demands regarding their own identity, culture, language and survival? Everyone is aware that, if we don't pass the bill as amended, we're maintaining genocide.

The floor is yours. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Someone raised their hand and would like to go first.

Chief, please, we have two minutes and 12 seconds to share your time.

[Marilyn Slett]

With respect to resources and finances, costs and administrative barriers are not a reason to deny charter rights. ISC numbers show 300,000 newly entitled status Indians over 40 years. If we divide that up per year, that's 7,500 per year divided by 630 nations across Canada. That's roughly 12 members per nation.

We certainly agree that more resources are required for communities, for nations. This is something that we support. It's not a reason to continue the discrimination. We're at a point right now where we can fix this wrong. This is why we're here, to advocate and to lobby so that this happens.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Go ahead, Ms. Gill.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC]

Mr. Chair, I know I have about a minute left, but I'd like to know if we agree that the Prime Minister shouldn't interfere in the work of parliamentary committees or the will of first nations regarding their own identity and that of their children.

Ms. Fraser, you didn't get a chance to speak, I don't know if you'd like to jump in. Thank you.

[Patty Fraser]

I'm sorry, but I didn't get the interpretation. I can submit my answer.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC]

Mr. Chair, I'd like to ask my question in French. Can we give Ms. Fraser enough time to answer my question? I think it's important.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Let us know if you can hear that, please, Ms. Fraser.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC]

Has anyone shown Ms. Fraser how to use the earpiece?

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

We're suspending briefly.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

I suspended the time. The question will not count for the time. There will be 30 seconds for an answer.

Go ahead, Ms. Gill.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Of course, if you don't have time to answer the question, you can submit your responses in writing. That's always a possibility.

I was saying that I was troubled and that I found it inappropriate. That's my opinion. You asked us to put ourselves in first nations' shoes, which I'm doing. The Prime Minister told his minister to ask the Senate not to propose amendments and to say that the bill would be passed if no amendments were made. I'd like to hear your thoughts on that. I was saying that we're already in a colonialist structure, and the prime minister says it will not be passed and is deciding how the bill should be.

Do you agree with this way of doing things? What should the Prime Minister do? It seems we're being told not to do our jobs as MPs and not to listen to first nations. What should we do?

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Give a brief answer in 30 seconds.

[Patty Fraser]

I think I may have to submit my answer because I don't really know how long....

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

That's fine. The response in writing is equal to spoken testimony. We'll accept that.

[Patty Fraser]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Thank you, Ms. Fraser.

We'll move to our next person. I believe it's MP Schmale for five minutes.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses.

Senator, I think I caught it correctly, but maybe you could clarify it. Did you say that, at the Senate committee, Minister Gull-Masty mentioned on record that the Prime Minister did not want amendments to Bill S-2? Can you expand on that, please?

[Mary Jane McCallum]

I have to tell you that there was a lot of pressure on the AAPA committee not to do any amendments. I met individually with the minister.

I don't know how to explain this. When we introduced the amendment for the second-generation cut-off, she said that it was a racist thing to do. This is in the minutes of the committee meeting, so it's not confidential. There was really nothing we could do about it because the government representative attended all of our meetings.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes, ON]

You're saying there was pressure. Where did this pressure not to include the amendments come from?

[Mary Jane McCallum]

It came from the government representative in the Senate.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes, ON]

The government representative in the Senate was pushing senators not to amend the original version of Bill S-2 to include the second-generation cut-off.

We'll look through the Hansard a little closer now.

[Mary Jane McCallum]

Look at it and see.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes, ON]

That's what we're looking at right now. It's what you just mentioned.

[Mary Jane McCallum]

Yes. That is why I ended up going to the Ethics Commissioner. I asked if I could speak and be involved in this bill. I said I was brought here to look at first nations issues and their impacts because I worked in the community for many years. I asked if that meant I couldn't speak to women's issues or if disabled people couldn't speak to disability issues. At the end, the Ethics Commissioner said, “No, you're okay.”