Evidence of meeting #37 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was work.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Liberal
Mandy Gull-Masty Liberal Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC
—step that we want to take to ensure that we can have a larger sample for how we want to track things. One of the mandates that we received in the budget was to modernize health care delivery in the north. I think this is going to present an accurate portrait and frame. If you wish to have additional information on this, I'll turn to my department officials and ask one of them to supplement my response.
Conservative
Billy Morin Conservative Edmonton Northwest, AB
I don't wish that. Thank you for the response.
The next question that I have is on the “Percentage of health infrastructure with a condition rating of ‘good’”. In 2023, it was 84%; in 2024, it was 80%, and in 2025, it was 84%. Your goal is to lower the percentage of “good” health care infrastructure to a target of 75% in 2027.
Why is your target for health infrastructure to get worse in your departmental plan?
Liberal
Nelson Barbosa Director General, Community Infrastructure Branch, Department of Indigenous Services
Thank you for the question.
In response to the Auditor General's report of a few months ago, in which she indicated that there was a need for improvements to health facilities, the department committed to assessing each health facility on a tri-annual basis, or every three years. Those are the important measures to determine the efficacy of a piece of infrastructure, its lifespan, its needed repairs and its replacement. That process is under way. We committed to doing that, and we tabled that at the public accounts committee.
Thank you for your question.
Conservative
Billy Morin Conservative Edmonton Northwest, AB
Thank you for the answer.
Minister, I think you can agree that poverty affects indigenous people disproportionately. Would you not agree with that, especially in the remote and rural communities?
Liberal
Liberal
Mandy Gull-Masty Liberal Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC
I can attest, meaning that I have also endured that, growing up in a community while being raised by a single mother and living in poverty.
Conservative
Billy Morin Conservative Edmonton Northwest, AB
Thank you for that.
Some of these results are projected to go down. A lot of them, in my opinion, were copied and pasted. I don't think the answer was sufficient in terms of why these numbers are copied and pasted for a $25-billion budget. They are very clearly copied and pasted, because they're the exact same numbers. In fact, a lot of these goals and these targets come from KPIs.
As the first indigenous Minister of Indigenous Services, I hope you do change this, but would you not agree that paying bonuses for these types of KPIs and results is wrong?
Liberal
Mandy Gull-Masty Liberal Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC
I'll ask my officials to answer on the departmental plan.
Conservative
Conservative
Billy Morin Conservative Edmonton Northwest, AB
—because you hold the ultimate pen over this authority of paying bonuses for these types of results.
Liberal
Mandy Gull-Masty Liberal Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC
I want to clarify that a portion of the bonus, as you frame it, is holdback pay. This is pay that we provide to staff for their performance when they reach the measures of the role that they're playing within the department. The numbers that you've quoted online, through other measures and trying to communicate to Canadians, are actually inaccurate.
Conservative
Billy Morin Conservative Edmonton Northwest, AB
Those are numbers from your own website. Those are the government's own numbers.
Liberal
Mandy Gull-Masty Liberal Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC
If you want additional information on what that means, I can turn to my officials and ask them to clarify.
Conservative
Billy Morin Conservative Edmonton Northwest, AB
No, [Inaudible—Editor] on whether you justify it or not.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Terry Sheehan
We don't have any more time. We're going on to the next round.
We have MP Lavack for six minutes, please.
Liberal
Ginette Lavack Liberal St. Boniface—St. Vital, MB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Minister, thank you for joining us this morning. Thank you for your remarks and for your excellent work at the head of this vital department.
In your remarks, you often talk about the importance of self‑determination for the first nations. In fact, you spoke about this topic this morning. The first nations must remain the central focus of decisions that affect them.
The Canadian Human Rights Tribunal has asked us to reform the child and family services. The plan introduced last December focused on regional agreements. You said that the final agreement with Ontario had just been implemented.
Could you talk a bit more about the impact on child care services for the Ontario first nations? How will this actually play out in these communities?
Liberal
Mandy Gull-Masty Liberal Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC
I would like to start by saying that I'm quite proud of the work carried out in Ontario. Reforming the process for taking care of children during the most vulnerable period of their lives is no easy task.
Regional Chief Benedict and Grand Chief Fiddler have played this role in the field. They worked with members of their community, young people, elders and people employed in this field. I think that this discussion is quite challenging, but quite important. They established the process to redefine this space to make sure that the children remain connected to their community, that they have access to their language, but that they also have ties to their community members. This is something quite important.
I also want to emphasize that our current work in this area is really about engaging communities and nations. We're working with them to define this space to meet their needs. We know that there are many distinct nations in Canada, many languages and many relationships with ancestral territories. As minister, I want to take this type of approach to reinforce this. We aren't here to find one process for all the nations in Canada. We're really here to work with the first nations using whatever approach they choose.
I'm proud of the amount invested in this area. I'm proud to know that a number of nations decided to move their cases forward, that they're at the table, that they're talking with us and, above all, that they're doing the work requested by their members. That's important. That's really what we're focusing on with this matter.
At the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs, I heard the request to carry out this work. I know that you were there, Ms. Lavack. Thank you for supporting the nations of Manitoba to ensure that their voices are clearly heard around the table and that they're the ones who want to carry out this work.
Liberal
Ginette Lavack Liberal St. Boniface—St. Vital, MB
Can you talk a bit about the progress on other agreements that will be signed across the country? You just said that my home province of Manitoba intends to carry out this work. Have you started any discussions or conversations with Manitoba and other provinces? What progress has been made on this matter?
Liberal
Mandy Gull-Masty Liberal Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC
I just returned from a quick visit to Manitoba. I continued my conversation with Grand Chief Kyra Wilson and also with a number of other chiefs in attendance, including former national chief Ovide Mercredi. He spoke at length about the government's approach.
One thing that I found encouraging about this meeting is that our approach to moving forward and supporting nations in making decisions really hinges on reconciliation. If we really want to take care of children and ensure that they continue to stay connected with their nations, we really need to give nations the space needed to determine the parameters of this approach.
In Manitoba, we've had some good news. We're currently working with the Treaty No. 8 territory. I'm in discussions concerning Treaty No. 6 and Treaty No. 7. I'm starting discussions in British Columbia. It's the same thing in Atlantic Canada. Some communities are interested in this area. I've had discussions in Quebec. In Ontario, the process has been completed.
I want to make sure that we don't take a one‑size‑fits‑all approach. We're really here to work with the communities and to take their needs into account in this process.
Liberal