Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Oct. 20th, 2025

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Thank you very much, Captain. If you want to follow up and send in some of those training courses to the clerk, we can make sure they're attached to the report.

Thank you.

Now for the second round, we have a five-minute round for MP Morin.

[Billy Morin, Conservative, Edmonton Northwest, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

[Member spoke in Plains Cree and provided the following text:]

Tansi Niwahkamahkanak Nahtohkitopi Nitsikason.

[Member provided the following translation:]

Hello all my relatives. My name is Sacred Rider.

[English]

Thank you, chiefs, guests, for coming today.

I'd like to build on my colleague's question earlier.

Chief Abram Benedict, the Liberal government in 2022 promised policing would be an essential service after the tragedy at James Smith, amongst many other tragedies that indigenous communities face.

It's been a number of years now. There's a scathing report out by the Auditor General that even the current programs are failing. Do you trust the Liberal government to do what it said and declare it an essential service?

[Regional Chief Abram Benedict]

I'm not here to tell about government trust, especially being a first nation member, but what I can say is that the commitment that was made by the government was around codevelopment, and codevelopment to first nations is different depending on what region you're in.

As the Ontario regional chief, I can say the process is used, and frankly community policing in the south is not the same in central or the north. Therefore, the codevelopment process that the government committed to has occurred, but what has not occurred is that legislation has not been implemented, nor has any been tabled at any point since those commitments were made, which is deeply concerning to us.

This is a program, and it needs to move past that. There's not a police agency, whether it be first nation or non-first nation, that is not facing a barrage of issues. We need first nation policing to be a legislated program.

[Billy Morin, Conservative, Edmonton Northwest, AB]

Thanks, Chief. I have one more follow-up for you.

You come from Akwesasne. My heritage is Blackfoot. They're border communities. There is Tsawwassen. Across this country, there are border communities all across the medicine line.

Recently the government announced multi-millions of dollars going to a thousand border patrol officers and going to other aspects of protecting our border.

Have they done right by your community when it comes to protecting the Akwesasne border and stopping crime flowing across?

[Regional Chief Abram Benedict]

As a former community member who continues to be a resident of Akwesasne, the system of border safety and security is quite complicated. I do know that not very many agencies, whether it be the RCMP, the CBSA or the Canadian Armed Forces, have a system that moves quickly to get people into these programs and onto the ground, either protecting the border or being RCMP officers. That's a big problem that exists.

I can also tell you that parity between what municipal police agencies or the RCMP and what first nations receive has always been a long-standing issue. In fact, for systems that are broken to bring people in, ones that can be expedited under first nation policing agencies, the salary is not comparable, nor are the benefits. This is a big problem as well.

[Billy Morin, Conservative, Edmonton Northwest, AB]

Thanks, Chief.

Chief Doris Bill, I want to acknowledge some of the strengths you mentioned in terms of self-development and self-determination. Again, I would just highlight a thing that I saw a couple of weeks ago. Kainai created their own justice centre and their own sentencing circles, for lack of a better word. They were quoting a 90% success rate versus the 20% success rate of the provincial circuit courts in the next room over on their reserve. I think the answers to our challenges in indigenous communities lie in the communities themselves, so my hat's off to you.

You mentioned, as the chief did, that there are discrepancies in funding through the first nations and Inuit policing program. Can you comment on the unique aspects of Yukon communities, whether rural or not, and the challenges they face when it comes to policing and the supports they get from the first nations and Inuit policing program? In particular, are they facing challenges in getting supports from that program?

[Doris Bill]

I think it has changed over time. I can't comment on the current situation. I do know that there are 14 communities in the Yukon. Some don't have any policing at all and some have detachments. In Whitehorse we are an urban first nation, so we have a detachment that's located about a mile away from us. However, there were times when we needed the RCMP and they weren't quite there. That relationship was really broken, to a point where our citizens were very frustrated.

I think the safety officer program can help in certain situations. They're not an enforcement body. We surveyed our citizens and 94% said they didn't want the safety officers to be an enforcement body. I really believe that the safety officers can help in situations where there is no policing. They become the eyes and ears of the community. People trust them. It's unbelievable the amount of information they get. That information is then passed on to the RCMP. When major events happen in communities, the safety officers can step in and watch over the community, ensuring that victims get the services they need while the RCMP focus on the major investigations they need to do. We have to work on that relationship and work on educating the RCMP across the country about the program. Many don't understand it. Even MPs, I find, don't understand it. We're constantly having to educate people about it.

Regarding the current relationship, in some cases it works and in some cases it doesn't. I find it's very haphazard.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Thank you very much for that.

MP Lavack, you have five minutes.

[Ginette Lavack, Liberal, St. Boniface—St. Vital, MB]

Good afternoon to the witnesses. Thank you very much for being here today to testify and share information with us. It's very much appreciated.

Ms. Bill, in your remarks, you mentioned circle sentencing. Could you tell us what that represents?

[Doris Bill]

Circle sentencing, in our community anyway, was at times an alternative to the court system. It was a traditional alternative where you would sit in a circle. The victim and the perpetrator would be part of that circle. They would come up with an alternative to the mainstream sentencing type of thing. I believe in some communities it works very well. In some communities it works for a while, and then it falls by the wayside.

There are varying degrees of success with it. It's a traditional alternative that was developed by our people. It's meant to be part of restitution. Individuals are able to talk to the victim and the family and the community. It's restitution to the community. The community is part of that circle.

[Ginette Lavack, Liberal, St. Boniface—St. Vital, MB]

Thank you for that.

Both of you have mentioned or talked about this idea of programs and policing being developed in such a way that it is “culturally grounded”.

Can you both perhaps elaborate on what that actually means in practice? What do you see there? What recommendations might you have that really touch on that aspect and how that could be brought forward better?

[Doris Bill]

In our community, we have many citizens who have been affected by residential school, for instance. Many have substance use issues, and we have a lot of citizens who are on the street. Poverty is a big issue. Cultural alternatives to these issues are extremely important.

One of the things we worked toward, for instance, was a managed alcohol program that was administered by our people. It's very important that our own people develop these alternatives, because we relate to them the best. I believe the communities have the solutions to the issues and the problems that we are seeking. No one can come into our community and develop these solutions. We have seen the federal government come in before and do safety assessments, for instance, and they don't work. It's because our community is not involved. Our community needs to take ownership of these issues and develop solutions that work for our people. No one knows better what those solutions are than our people. We need the resources to develop them.

[Ginette Lavack, Liberal, St. Boniface—St. Vital, MB]

Is there time for Abram to answer?

[Regional Chief Abram Benedict]

Thank you for that.

I think what Doris has talked about is a holistic approach. Some municipal police agencies try to take a holistic approach, but it would not be the same as we'd see in first nation communities. This would be policing grounded in tradition, teaching, ceremony and language, and ensuring that community priorities play a role.

Community policing needs to be driven by the community. When we look at what it means to be culturally grounded, what policing should look like is to be determined by the community.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Thank you very much.

Now we go to Mr. Lemire for two and a half minutes, please.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Grand Chief Benedict, I'd like to hear your point of view. Right now in the House of Commons, we're talking about Bill C‑2, which is at second reading. We're actually talking about Bill C‑12, because Bill C‑2 was set aside.

Bill C‑12 does not include the provisions of Bill C‑2 that affected people's personal information, such as the ability to search their mail. These are things that I think you had some reservations about.

We can't deny that the border issue is important, particularly where you live, in Akwesasne. We hear about gun, drug and human trafficking. Could we bring better solutions for the issue of keeping our borders secure if these elements were managed by an indigenous police force in your area?

[Regional Chief Abram Benedict]

Absolutely. As I mentioned earlier, I talked about my experience when I was the grand chief of Akwesasne with the integration of the partnerships that exist between the Akwesasne Mohawk Police Service, the RCMP, the Cornwall police, the OPP, the FBI, the Saint Regis Mohawk Tribe and ICE. All of these agencies work together in a partnership. For the most part, if first nations are not treated as partners—which, sadly, across the board they are not in many places, including in first nation policing agencies—we will not see the success. Whether we're securing communities to be safe or whether we're securing the national security of Canada through the borders, first nations must be treated as partners.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

If we went beyond a partnership and gave the Akwesasne community and the indigenous police control of operations on your territory, do you think would that produce better results?

[Regional Chief Abram Benedict]

If first nation policing were made an essential service, yes, absolutely. The resources in Akwesasne are a bit of an anomaly because of the border situation. For the rest of the communities across Canada that are trying to secure their communities, they don't have the same luxury of additional resources because of border communities, but the risks are the same.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Chair, since I exceeded my speaking time earlier, I will respect it this time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Thank you.

Next, we have Mr. Melillo for five minutes.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora—Kiiwetinoong, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the opportunity to take part in this important discussion. I want to ask some questions of Chief Benedict.

It's good to see you again. I represent northwestern Ontario, as you know. I think an important move that was made recently is that the Ontario government has recognized the Nishnawbe Aski Police Service as an essential service. You've talked a number of times today about how the circumstances are different among different communities.

Can you speak to how that designation at the provincial level has changed things in the Nishnawbe Aski Police Service versus the other services across the province?

[Regional Chief Abram Benedict]

I'm not intimately involved in those operations, but to go back to my points earlier about first nations determining the best approaches for community policing, the Nishnawbe Aski Police Service has determined that going under provincial legislation, which is the Ontario Community Safety and Policing Act, is the best way forward for their agency to support their 49 communities.

Not every community may be in that same position. Others.... That's why it's equally important that there's not.... There can't be a national approach to finding community-based solutions for policing. That's quite obvious in many areas. I mean, there's no doubt that the resources need to be there. There's no doubt that the service needs to be essential so that it's equivalent to other policing agencies, but those governance models need to be determined by the communities so that they can determine what model works best for them. Again, it may be under provincial legislation. It may be a hybrid. It may be straight contracting services to the OPP or to a municipal police force. Those decisions need to be made by the communities themselves.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora—Kiiwetinoong, ON]

I appreciate that.

I want to pick up on another previous topic. The thing about going so late in the round is that a lot of the topics have been touched on already, but I think it's important to dive into them again.

Obviously, in the region I represent, northern Ontario—and as you know, Grand Chief—there are a number of remote fly-in communities. I think there is a staggering amount of gang activity, of drugs, firearms and other illegal items being brought into these communities. I think it's, maybe, counterintuitive for a lot of people outside of the north to understand. The communities are isolated. You have to fly in to get to them. I think a lot of people don't recognize, as well, that these are planes—even passenger planes—for which there is no security necessary. You can get on the plane without security and get off the plane without security—without going through security as you normally would at Pearson or other large airports. I just put that on the record for folks who might be watching and are unaware of that.

I think that's an important gap, though, because in these remote first nation communities across northwestern Ontario, the people are in a vulnerable situation. There aren't resources available to watch for people who are transporting things in by plane, sometimes through mail or through a number of other methods.

Could you speak more to that issue, Grand Chief, in terms of that unchecked travel into those remote communities and how police forces could be better equipped to handle that?