Industry and Technology Committee on March 12th, 2026

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette—Manawan, QC]

Thank you very much. That's very clear.

I sincerely hope that the government hears clearly what you are explaining here and renews funding for the zero emission vehicle infrastructure program. We would have liked to see this done when the strategy was unveiled. We'll continue to call for that. We want the government to hear us clearly on this.

I have 30 seconds left. I'd like you to talk about the importance of predictability in the government's strategy and policies when it comes to zero-emission standards and electric vehicles. We can then come back to it in the second round.

[Travis Allan]

As I mentioned, the biggest challenge for public fast-charging deployments is knowing how many people will actually drive battery electric vehicles. Those are our customers, and we need to predict that over a decade.

When we are looking at Canada's new target, 75% by 2035 and 90% by 2040, the big question is whether the greenhouse gas regulations, which typically regulate grams per kilometre or grams per mile, will be enough to get fleet-wide emissions to result in zero-emissions vehicle sales that will actually give us those numbers. That is the issue that is currently being discussed. ECCC is going to be working on those regulations, and we will be here every step of the way to help ensure we get some great regs.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

Thank you.

Mr. Guglielmin, you have five minutes.

[Michael Guglielmin, Conservative, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, witnesses, for appearing today.

Mr. Shipley, I understand that you are a Canadian Forces veteran, so I just want to start by thanking you for your service.

You've described Chinese EVs as potential spy vans, rolling spy vans, and your broader point is understood about connected vehicles more generally. At the same time, we see that the U.S. has moved to restrict Chinese and Russian software due to security concerns.

Given your background in cybersecurity and your service in the military, should we be thinking about EV charging infrastructure on military bases, not just as routine green infrastructure but maybe as part of a broader defence network?

[David Shipley]

In terms of the cybersecurity issues related to EV charging networks, there are regular hacking competitions that continuously demonstrate a number of vulnerabilities in these systems that require attention. These systems do require regulation to make sure they're properly secured, both as a physical safety issue as well as due to the potential for surveillance or other harm. I do believe that we need to pay attention to these issues.

[Michael Guglielmin, Conservative, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

On a military base, could seemingly routine data points—for instance, vehicle location, charging patterns, fleet movements and personal habits—become sensitive information if put into the wrong hands?

[David Shipley]

I would point to the fact that Israel has made moves to remove Chinese-made EVs from its military facilities. Obviously, they're one of the most advanced countries in the world when it comes to cybersecurity.

[Michael Guglielmin, Conservative, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

You have also spoken about the broader issue of Chinese EVs and connected EVs, and the risk that connected vehicles with cameras, microphones, telemeters and smart features are being exploited for surveillance purposes, and even for remote interference. Do you believe we'd taken the national security concerns seriously enough before we even began to approach Chinese EV market access?

[David Shipley]

We are asleep at the wheel when it comes to all of these cars. We are talking about a small number of these cars: 49,000 cars. Some 43% of cars on Canada's roads today are connected to the Internet. We can compare that to the fact that 90% of new cars sold from all manufacturers are connected to the Internet, and there's not a single regulation or standard for them. We all should not be sleeping well about all of that.

[Michael Guglielmin, Conservative, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Ms. Dancho pointed out that we have multiple directors from CSIS who have called the Chinese government our largest security concern. Former director of CSIS and national security adviser, Richard Fadden, called China a “fundamental threat”. Our own parliamentary committee on national security and intelligence wrote that the Chinese government remains our “largest foreign interference threat”, including to our domestic institutions and processes. A Canadian Public Safety briefing note said that the CCP is pursuing “geopolitical advantage on all fronts”, and “using all elements of state power” in a way that is “a direct threat to [Canadian] sovereignty and security”. Given your expertise in cybersecurity, would you recommend that we put Chinese EVs or EV infrastructure on Canadian military bases?

[David Shipley]

I think that we should probably understand why allies like Poland and countries like Israel are not doing that. We should probably have a fulsome investigation and a thorough risk analysis done by our military to understand the benefits and the risks they're taking on. I think that's an important part of it.

The thing that keeps me awake at night right now is that we have a rising group of 20- to 29-year-olds who just want to burn the world down, who are now being equipped daily with AI tools and are learning how to hack things, just to hurt people. They're a threat, just like the CCP.

[Michael Guglielmin, Conservative, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

I'm sorry to cut you off, but time is limited.

You wouldn't recommend this. You think there would be a big risk there.

I have a similar question. Would you recommend that ministers of the Crown or the Prime Minister operate one of these vehicles?

[David Shipley]

I would leave that to our security agencies to determine. However, if I were in their shoes, I wouldn't be driving one.

[Michael Guglielmin, Conservative, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

If there's a great risk to military and government officials, it obviously, then, stands to reason that having them in the public sphere would also pose a security and national security risk.

Chair, if you'll indulge me, I would like to move the following motion:

That the committee undertake a consideration of the supplementary estimates (C), 2025-26, referred to the committee; that the Minister of Industry and departmental officials be invited to testify; and that the committee report the votes back to the House no later than March 26, 2026.

[Michael Ma, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

Hold on for just one second, Mr. Ma, please.

The trouble here, Mr. Guglielmin, is that this motion, to my knowledge, was not put on notice previously. We are not in committee business, therefore, it's not related.

Was the motion you're reading put on notice previously, the exact same one? I'm just going to double-check that.

Colleagues, I'm going to do a couple of things here. We are going to run out of time, so I'm going to let our witnesses go.

Witnesses, thank you very much for your testimony here today. We appreciate your contributions and wish you a good rest of your day.

Mr. Ma, go ahead on a point of order.

[Michael Ma, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Yes, it's on the relevance of this motion to this meeting, especially with the witnesses and so forth.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

There's a bit of confusion. I'll just clarify here for us.

Mr. Guglielmin, you can't move that motion. It's not because of a relevance issue per se, but because you did not put the motion on notice. That motion has to be moved by the original member who put it on notice.

Madam Dancho, of course, is welcome to do that should she wish to, but I can't accept it from you because it was not originally put on notice by you.

[Michael Guglielmin, Conservative, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Can I cede my time to Ms. Dancho?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

There's no time issue here.

I see that Madam Dancho has her hand up. I have a good guess as to what this might be about.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

I move:

That the committee undertake a consideration of the supplementary estimates, 2025-26, referred to the committee; that the Minister of Industry and departmental officials be invited to testify; and that the committee report the votes back to the House no later than March 26, 2026.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

Colleagues that motion is before us. That motion had been put on notice.

Prior to engaging in a discussion on this, I will just note that the challenge is the timeline. We're just waiting to get an answer on the deadline for the supps, but it is very soon. This would require, of course, some changes to the current schedule before us and obviously the availability of the minister within that tight time frame.

As with all motions, the floor is open for debate.

Mr. Bardeesy.

[Karim Bardeesy, Liberal, Taiaiako'n—Parkdale—High Park, ON]

I want to register that I want to hear my colleague Mr. Ma's engagement with those witnesses. I hope that in the rest of the auto study we can have an opportunity to hear questions and remarks related to the cybersecurity concerns that were raised and have some of Mr. Ma's experts' responses back.

We have a motion related to the supplementary estimates. We also know there's interest in hearing from the minister on the main estimates. Because these are closely related and because there are often requests to have the minister, I do have a motion that could be an amendment to the current motion.

I would like the committee to consider inviting the minister to participate in one discussion that features both the supplementary estimates and the main estimates, because of the timelines you identified and because it's fundamentally covering the same issues.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

Are you proposing putting forward an amendment to Madam Dancho's motion?

[Karim Bardeesy, Liberal, Taiaiako'n—Parkdale—High Park, ON]

I am. I just need to have Madam Dancho's language in front of me, which I do not have yet.

Madam Clerk, is the paper copy of this motion being distributed?