Evidence of meeting #34 for Industry and Technology in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was industry.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Members speaking

Before the committee

Anderson  Executive Director, Saskatchewan Industrial and Mining Suppliers Association
Loomis  President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Institute of Steel Construction
Donally  Chief Executive Officer, Windsor Essex Chamber of Commerce
Hicks  Director, Canadian Association of Moldmakers
Cretney  Executive Director, Energy Futures Lab
Moffatt  President and Chief Executive Officer, Chemistry Industry Association of Canada

11:55 a.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Windsor Essex Chamber of Commerce

Ryan Donally

To a person, the folks I meet with feel sad because the relationship has been threatened and has devolved over the past year. Very few people I've met with have said, “This is great for our business and our country.” It really is a situation where, a year and a half ago, we were best friends, neighbours, colleagues, allies, etc., but here we are with the Trump administration placing a tariff on industries. Tens of thousands—if not hundreds of thousands—of people's jobs are at risk, which also undermines their own economy.

Noon

Liberal

Parm Bains Liberal Richmond East—Steveston, BC

Have they shared measurable impacts on their local economies?

Noon

Chief Executive Officer, Windsor Essex Chamber of Commerce

Ryan Donally

We will be getting more of those impact statements over the coming weeks, as they specifically relate to that, when these products start to not hit the floors.

Noon

Liberal

Parm Bains Liberal Richmond East—Steveston, BC

There has been a lot said and a lot of news about the Gordie Howe bridge.

Again, it's a similar type of question: What's the reaction in the community regarding the bridge coming online pretty soon? I believe the testing is happening right now. What are they talking about on the other side regarding good faith or the lack of good faith, potentially?

Noon

Chief Executive Officer, Windsor Essex Chamber of Commerce

Ryan Donally

This is a discussion that has happened for over 25 years, from the initial idea of a Gordie Howe bridge to where we're at today with the opening in the coming weeks, hopefully, if not months. This is a piece of infrastructure that will span generations. This is a literal or figurative bridge—whatever you want to call it. Let's hope that, this summer when it opens, we're crossing that literal or theoretical bridge with open arms, ensuring that two countries that have been best friends, neighbours and allies for generations come together to work in harmony again. I'm looking forward to that opening day.

Noon

Liberal

Parm Bains Liberal Richmond East—Steveston, BC

Thank you.

Noon

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ben Carr

Thank you very much, Mr. Bains.

Witnesses, I very much appreciate your being here with us today. We understand it's a challenging time for your industries and your employees, and for you, both professionally and personally. Availing yourselves to us on short notice is not only very helpful in regard to the insight it provides but also something we greatly appreciate. Thank you for making yourselves available.

Mr. Loomis, if you find yourself getting into Mar-a-Lago while you're down in the United States, make sure you put in a plug for us.

Noon

President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Institute of Steel Construction

Keanin Loomis

I will do my best.

Thank you so much for the opportunity.

Noon

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ben Carr

The meeting is suspended while we turn over.

The Chair Liberal Ben Carr

Everybody, welcome back. We're going to head into the second hour of our testimony here today. I'm sure it'll be a continuation of a very important conversation.

We have three new witnesses with us. The director of sales from Diemould Service Company Canada Limited and the director of the Canadian Association of Moldmakers, Michael Hicks, is joining us virtually.

Mr. Hicks, I understand that there's some choppiness on the Internet connection. We'll do our best to navigate that as necessary.

From the Chemistry Industry Association of Canada, we're joined by its president and CEO, Greg Moffatt. Joining us virtually, from Energy Futures Lab, is Alison Cretney.

Mr. Hicks, we'll test this right off the top. I'm going to give you an opportunity for your opening remarks for up to five minutes. If we have some challenges, I'm going to go to Ms. Cretney next.

Be ready, in the event that we have to do that on short notice.

Mr. Hicks, the floor is yours for five minutes, sir.

Michael Hicks Director, Canadian Association of Moldmakers

As I mentioned to you, I have an unstable connection. It's also saying something about bandwidth as well. I'm sorry that I'm having technical problems. Hopefully everybody can hear me.

My name is Michael Hicks. I have been a CAMM board director for 42 years. I've been with DMS—the company that I work for as a director of sales—for 45 years. Our headquarters are in Windsor, Ontario. We have a branch in Chicago. I have extensive North American and global tool and mould business and travel experience. I have also participated in three previous committee hearings, including the 2006 hearings on challenges facing the Canadian manufacturing sector. I see some parallels in 2026. I would be happy to elaborate, if requested.

I was also involved in the 2002 USITC investigation on the global tool and mould industry where Canada was deemed to be a fair global trading partner. I would be happy to elaborate, if requested.

On Monday, April 20, fellow CAMM board members, representing their individual companies.... You have those transcripts. You heard the impacts. You heard statistics. Ryan was just on the previous panel as our chamber CEO. You have previously heard that, obviously, there have been devastating effects because of this section 232—unannounced with two days' notice—tariff revision.

I would also be happy to elaborate on the last 10-year timeline, if that's something of interest to this group.

It has mostly caused uncertainty throughout the industry. That's what has been happening, really, with the advent of moving from ICEs to EVs. Obviously, the tariffs themselves are horrible, but it's the uncertainty that they cause that causes many companies to pause programs and so on and so forth.

The saddest thing about this is that we survived these uncertainty periods, and our industry was about boom. It was going to have a great time period for the next two or three years. You heard earlier about all of these new projects that are coming out now that there's a defined...back to combustion engines, to ICEs. That's what's really sad about this. Unfortunately, these new revised tariffs may cause a kaboom if something is not done immediately.

My goal today.... Again, I've participated in these in the past. I think it's vital for Prime Minister Carney to get down to Windsor ASAP to take a tour of these tool and mould shops and to take a tour of other manufacturing facilities.

Again, this is obviously not about politics, but Mr. Carney is a great prime minister. Obviously, he's well-versed in other sectors, but maybe he's not so much in this manufacturing sector. He needs to get into our shops to see what he's dealing with so that he can actually support and go to bat for us and come up with a plan. I think that's vital. He needs to get down here ASAP—and, obviously, get to Washington, but that's another story for another day. I also have some ideas to get things going in that regard, if questioned.

I believe it was mentioned on Monday, but this is worth repeating. It's regarding COVID. When the country was shutting down, our tool and mould shops and our manufacturing sectors remained essential. They remained open. They were building a lot of medical-related products. Obviously, they were creating revenue and contributing to the GDP. I think we should go back and look at that. Obviously, that's back.... However, now our sector needs the help of the Canadian government, if you will. We were there when you needed us. Now, hopefully, you can step up for us.

Again, you have heard that our industry is a mature industry. We are also world class and best in class at what we do. We were firing, mostly, on all cylinders prior to this sneak attack on April 6.

The majority of our work is based in the U.S., and our shops can't pivot. Our shops do go to trade shows globally and so on and so forth, but they can't pivot to those markets. Again, when they do these global trade shows, it's mostly to deal with zone partners who are actually running manufacturing in the United States. Mexico is a bit of an option for us because there's a lot of production running there, but that's another story for another day.

Obviously, when our shops are doing business in the United States, where it might be hundreds and thousands of miles away, again it illustrates how good they are at what they do. We are very fortunate here in the Windsor area that we have some younger, aggressive, good business people who are willing to reinvest in their industries, so it's not like they're just running them into the ground and, okay, we'll see where this goes. Again, they have business plans, and we need more stability here.

We appreciate all the work of both parties involved in this task and, again, I will elaborate as needed.

Thank you very much.

The Chair Liberal Ben Carr

Thank you, Mr. Hicks.

Ms. Cretney, I'm going to turn to you now. The floor is yours for five minutes.

Alison Cretney Executive Director, Energy Futures Lab

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to the members of the committee for the opportunity to appear today.

My name is Alison Cretney. I represent the Energy Futures Lab and the Future Materials Alliance, a multi-stakeholder coalition focused on western and northern Canada's role in critical materials supply chains.

I want to be clear about my expertise. I'm not a trade policy expert, and I can't speak to the specific mechanics of U.S. tariffs on steel and aluminum, but what I can speak to is the structural vulnerability that makes Canada exposed to this kind of pressure and what a more durable response could look like.

This committee has convened around addressing the immediate crisis of tariffs threatening Canadian jobs, but the deeper problem your mandate points to is structural and long-standing. We've been hearing a lot about the integration of Canadian steel and aluminum sectors across shared value chains, which, of course, has huge benefits, but it has also created a structural dependence and, when trading relationships shift, Canadians pay the price.

For many of Canada's other mineral and metal resources, the problem, at least for now, is somewhat different. For decades, Canada has extracted and exported raw and semi-processed materials while other countries capture the value-added stages: the refining, processing, manufacturing, high-skilled jobs and the economic and geopolitical leverage that comes with controlling critical supply chains. What we're seeing in steel and aluminum should be understood as a cautionary tale.

When we think about the full value chains that are now in the process of being built for critical minerals and other metals, we need to think ahead. We need to consider how Canada can build integrated metallurgical materials and manufacturing ecosystems that support resilient and sustainable domestic value chains and how we can produce the electronics, batteries, defence systems, clean energy infrastructure and other products that Canada and our allies need while also being more resilient to policy changes south of the border.

We have an advantage in that, for critical materials, we are still early enough to make choices. This is the system-level challenge that the Energy Futures Lab is working to address by creating the Future Materials Alliance. The alliance is bringing together industry, indigenous nations, governments and investors to build alignment around how Canada can move beyond extraction to sustainable, resilient value chains for critical minerals and metals. This means that Canada will have to address that missing middle of refining and processing capacity, but it also means that we need to build the coordination capacity to make it happen.

If we're serious about sovereignty and supply chain security, we must be just as serious about the ecosystems that make industrial strength real. A centralized lithium processing hub in the Prairies is a good example of what coordination can unlock. No single brine producer in Saskatchewan or Alberta can justify a refinery alone, but collectively these projects could justify a shared facility that enables the economics for all of them while anchoring a new industrial cluster that could serve producers from Manitoba to the Northwest Territories over to B.C.

That kind of outcome doesn't happen project by project. It happens when someone's holding the system view, building the shared intelligence, aligning the stakeholders and making the connections that no single company or government department can make on its own. Other jurisdictions have recognized this. China built its dominance by coordinating refining, chemicals, technologies, equipment, power, logistics, skills, finance, policy and incentives over decades. More recently, Europe created the European Raw Materials Alliance, and the U.S. created the critical materials alliance. These are not project-funding vehicles. They are coordination platforms designed to build the ecosystems that make projects viable in the first place. Canada has not yet made that investment, so that is the challenge and the opportunity that we now face.

In summary, we hope that Canada has learned the lesson that project-specific investments and targeted industrial incentives on their own do not necessarily lead to resilient supply chains. There are numerous examples where substantial world-class resources and determined project proponents did not translate into facilities, jobs or competitiveness, in part because the surrounding ecosystem was missing. In the absence of an aligned strategy and coordinated ecosystem, even well-funded projects can stall or never reach a final investment decision.

As we see it, there are three areas for this committee to consider. None of them will solve today's problems of tariffs on steel and aluminum, but they may help us avoid repeating this conversation in the future.

The first is building out midstream metals and materials processing capacity so we capture more value domestically and reduce exposure to external shocks. The second is better aligning critical minerals, metallurgical and advanced manufacturing policies, which today often sit in silos. The third is using procurement, industrial strategy and cluster development approaches to strengthen domestic ecosystems and not just individual projects, because coordination is in itself a form of intervention.

Chair and members of the committee, the pressure Canadian workers and industries are facing right now is real, and the committee is absolutely right to take this seriously.

Beyond short-term tariff relief, the most important response will be the one that reduces the likelihood of facing the same vulnerability again. The lesson from steel and aluminum is not to retreat from integration, as we've been hearing, but, rather, to pair integration with greater domestic capacity and value creation. That creates industrial resilience, leverages Canada's high environmental standards and creates high-skill jobs. That gives Canada genuine leverage in the supply chains the world is reorganizing around right now.

We have the resources, the talent and the industrial capacity to do that. The gap is definitely not capability. It's coordination—work that the Future Materials Alliance is focused on.

Thank you. I look forward to your questions.

The Chair Liberal Ben Carr

Thank you very much, Ms. Cretney.

Mr. Moffatt, we'll go to you now for up to five minutes.

Greg Moffatt President and Chief Executive Officer, Chemistry Industry Association of Canada

Thank you, Mr. Chair and members of the committee, for the opportunity to appear today.

I'm the president and CEO of the Chemistry Industry Association of Canada, and I'm here to speak to the essential role chemistry and plastics play in Canada's economy generally but specifically in the metallurgical processing sector, and to highlight the risks posed by recent U.S tariff action.

Chemistry is not adjacent to metallurgical processing. It is foundational to it. Across the value chain, chemical inputs are indispensable. They are used to separate minerals from ore, refine metals to exacting specifications and ensure operations are safe, efficient and environmentally responsible.

When we talk about critical minerals, I often like to say they are rocks without chemistry, because, to a certain extent, that's exactly what they are. You can see this across Canada, from Sudbury to Fort Saskatchewan to Montreal, and across Ontario’s steel and mining sector. Chemistry enables the production of nickel, cobalt, aluminum, steel and other materials that feed into manufacturing supply chains.

This integration also extends into plastics and manufacturing, where Canadian companies produce the moulds and materials that underpin thousands of everyday products, both consumer and industrial.

These are not separate sectors. They are part of a single, integrated industrial system, and that system is now under pressure. Canada’s chemistry and manufacturing sectors are deeply integrated with the United States. Each year, nearly $120 billion in chemistry and plastics products cross the border, often multiple times during production. Metallurgical supply chains function the same way. When tariffs are introduced at any point in that chain, the impacts compound: Costs rise, delays increase and uncertainty spreads.

While those impacts are immediate, supply chains cannot be reconfigured quickly. These are highly specialized inputs and long-standing relationships built over decades. The result is clear: Investment slows, competitiveness erodes and, over time, Canada’s industrial capacity is at risk.

We cannot control U.S. trade policy, but we can control how Canada responds. This is not just a trade issue. It is a competitiveness issue, a resilience issue and a jobs issue.

To respond effectively, I would highlight four areas for focus.

First, strengthen industrial competitiveness. We need policies that attract investment through competitive capital, efficient regulation and support for innovation.

Second, build more resilient domestic supply chains. Integration with the U.S. is a strength, but recent tariffs highlight the need to expand Canadian capacity, particularly in chemical production, metallurgical processing and critical minerals.

Third, use the upcoming CUSMA review strategically. CUSMA enables highly efficient North American value chains. The review is an opportunity to reinforce investment certainty, secure access to key inputs and ensure the smooth movement of goods.

Fourth, improve trade and transportation infrastructure. Reliable ports, rail and border systems are essential. When they fail, supply chains feel it immediately, and our reputation as a reliable trading partner is diminished.

As Minister MacKinnon said recently, “Canada has everything it needs to succeed...but none of that matters if we can’t move our goods efficiently, reliably and affordably.” We should all agree with that statement.

In closing, chemistry and plastics sit at the core of Canada’s industrial economy. They enable the transformation of raw materials into high-value products, support advanced manufacturing and underpin the supply chains that connect our economy. Investment decisions in these sectors are long-term, and they depend on predictability in trade, regulation and infrastructure.

The more certainty Canada can provide, the more successful we will be in maintaining and attracting investment and building resilient supply chains. This is a moment to focus on what we can control to strengthen our industrial base, improve our competitiveness and ensure Canada remains a reliable place to do business.

Thank you. I look forward to your questions.

The Chair Liberal Ben Carr

Thank you very much, Mr. Moffatt.

Colleagues, we're going to enter our first round of questions here.

Ms. Borrelli, the floor is yours for six minutes.

12:25 p.m.

Conservative

Kathy Borrelli Conservative Windsor—Tecumseh—Lakeshore, ON

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to all of our witnesses for being here today for this important study. My first question is for Mr. Hicks.

How critical is a long-term trade agreement to the survival of the mould industry?

12:25 p.m.

Director, Canadian Association of Moldmakers

Michael Hicks

Thank you very much, Ms. Borrelli.

Obviously, a long-term agreement is vital. We talked about uncertainty. We've had a lot of uncertainty, but when there's a trade agreement in place that's also being applied, that creates stability. We don't want to go short term and give away the farm. Obviously we want to negotiate a great long-term agreement, but in the short term, as I said, we need to do certain things to get to the long-term agreement.

12:25 p.m.

Conservative

Kathy Borrelli Conservative Windsor—Tecumseh—Lakeshore, ON

Thanks so much, Mr. Hicks.

12:25 p.m.

Director, Canadian Association of Moldmakers

Michael Hicks

You're welcome.

12:25 p.m.

Conservative

Kathy Borrelli Conservative Windsor—Tecumseh—Lakeshore, ON

I've heard from mould-makers in the Windsor-Essex area that some of them are trying to get into the defence procurement stream.

If the current pressures force Canadian mould-makers to exit the industry, what would that mean for Canada's long-term ability to sustain sovereign defence production and avoid reliance on foreign suppliers?

12:25 p.m.

Director, Canadian Association of Moldmakers

Michael Hicks

The reality is to switch markets, obviously, in my mind. Again, I'm representing our mould-makers. I don't have a mould shop. We're just a supplier to the industry. To pivot to other industries is great, but I don't want to call it a windfall. It's more of a bonus situation.

The reality is that many of our shops are geared to the current climate that's out there, and it may take a year, two years or three years. I know our shops try to diversify into other sectors, but it's not a reality, especially with the crisis we're facing right now. They are pursuing it, and it's great to hear that.

To answer your question, it's not a short-term solution for us. That's a long-term type of plan, in my mind.

12:30 p.m.

Conservative

Kathy Borrelli Conservative Windsor—Tecumseh—Lakeshore, ON

I realize that's long-term, but can we say we won't be able to supply our own defence equipment if all of these companies are closing or moving to the States?

12:30 p.m.

Director, Canadian Association of Moldmakers

Michael Hicks

I apologize to this group, because I only got half the question.

Our shops do have some facilities. Some of them have facilities in the States, and some have facilities in Mexico. The bulk of the builds are built here in Windsor, and because of the skilled labour force that's needed and things like the equipment, they can't just get up and move tomorrow. That's not a reality.

A reality could be to do a merger and acquisition of an American shop, if you will, but to actually have a shop leave Windsor and relocate to the States is really not going to happen.

12:30 p.m.

Conservative

Kathy Borrelli Conservative Windsor—Tecumseh—Lakeshore, ON

Mr. Moffatt, do you have an answer?