Industry and Technology Committee on April 30th, 2026

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

Good morning, everyone.

We have a full room in here today, which is nice to see.

We are back to our conversation on artificial intelligence. We've had a really useful set of meetings over the course of the past month or so, helping inform us from a variety of different perspectives about where things are, where they're going and where we want them to be. We very much appreciate the witnesses' being here today to help us in the continuation of that.

As a reminder to witnesses who are in the room, if you are using your earpiece and it's plugged in but not on your ear, please make sure that it's placed on the sticker in front of you to protect the health and well-being of our interpreters. If you're not using it, it's not plugged in, of course. That's not relevant. If you have questions about how to use the interpretation devices, just let us know.

We have a number of witnesses with us this morning.

I would like to welcome Mr. Garon, who is participating in the meeting by videoconference.

We have appearing with us, as an individual, Professor Barry Sanders. From the Canadian Telecommunications Workers Alliance, we have Nathalie Blais, who is the research representative from the Canadian Union of Public Employees; Roch Leblanc, who is the telecommunications director for Unifor; and Corey Mandryk, who is the lead organizer of United Steelworkers national local 1944. From Qu Data Centres Ltd., we have James Beer, the chief executive officer.

Witnesses, you will each have up to five minutes for your introductory remarks, save for the Canadian Telecommunications Workers Alliance. I believe it's Monsieur Leblanc who will speak for you.

You, sir, will have up to five minutes. Since I'm on you, why don't I hand the floor over?

You have five minutes for your presentation.

[Roch Leblanc, Telecommunications Director, Unifor, Canadian Telecommunications Workers Alliance]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning. I'm Roch Leblanc from Unifor. I'm joined today by Corey Mandryk with the United Steelworkers and Nathalie Blais from the Canadian Union of Public Employees.

Together, our organizations form the Canadian Telecommunications Workers Alliance. This alliance of three of the largest unions in Canada represents over 32,000 workers in the telecom sector, including those at the big three: Bell, Rogers and Telus. We look forward to sharing our views with you today. Through our collective expertise in connecting Canadians and our experience in artificial intelligence within the telco context, we are well positioned to contribute to this study in order to help protect Canadian privacy and digital sovereignty and to mitigate potential harmful impacts of AI on telco workers and customers.

Telecommunications is a strategic industry that underpins almost all other economic sectors and many aspects of our lives. In this context, Canada must be able to assert its autonomy over the telecommunications and digital infrastructure to guarantee the digital sovereignty of our country.

The federal government must not compromise Canadian national security and privacy rights by allowing foreign influence or operational control over any part of our telecommunications networks. This involves regulating the widespread use of AI in the industry. Canada has little control over data once it leaves the country, meaning that foreign-owned AI tools and data centres outside of Canada that support AI tools pose a risk to our personal information.

Over the past year, several major data breaches have affected Telus Digital, Rogers, Fido and Freedom Mobile. Canada's telecommunications network is a data-rich target for cybercriminals, which is why Canadians' personal information must be kept on Canadian soil to protect it.

Canada must consider repatriating call centres and other critical telecom operations that have been offshored. As the sector integrates artificial intelligence, the unregulated use of AI makes all Canadians and Canadian businesses that use telecom networks vulnerable. AI regulations, whether general or sector-specific, must be put in place to protect consumers and the workforce.

Telecommunications workers face numerous AI-related challenges, the main one being workplace surveillance facilitated by this technology. For example, AI scrutinizes every single word of the calls our members handle. Among other things, the system can calculate the percentage of calls that result in successful sales pitches. AI also evaluates the time that technicians spend on repairs. In both cases, surveillance is constant and oppressive and pushes employees to meet unrealistic expectations.

The use of AI-based surveillance systems should be restricted because they lead to increased psychological distress and make work more intense, two elements that have been identified as occupational health and safety risks.

Federal legislation must also better protect employees by strengthening their rights in relation to algorithmic management, technological change and training.

AI is being used as well for deceptive purposes in the telecom sector. We're aware of at least one “big three” telco using AI to mask the accents of offshore agents, altering how customers perceive who they are talking to. Our members have had overseas agents demonstrate the technology on agent-to-agent calls. The use of AI technology to deceive Canadians in any way should be prohibited.

The expanding use of AI chatbots may seem to provide a cheap alternative to Canadian labour, but these systems don’t always fulfill their promises. AI is a tool that may enhance a worker’s productivity, but should not be used at the expense of workers and customers. Canadians should know when AI is being used and have the right to talk to a human based in Canada, regulated by Canadian standards.

Automation and offshoring of work have led to the loss of more than 20,000 telecom jobs in the past 10 to 15 years, and AI is now intensifying this trend steadily with exit package offerings every year.

The federal government must establish a national AI framework that protects the privacy, data and rights of customers and workers, as well as good Canadians jobs. We cannot rely only on the voice of the industry to guide the deployment and governance of AI. A comprehensive social dialogue and consensus is required.

The CTWA calls on the government to establish a permanent tripartite working group on AI—including employers, labour and civil society representatives—to work with government to that end.

Thank you for your interest. We look forward to your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

Thank you, Mr. Leblanc.

Mr. Beer, I'll now turn to you.

The floor is yours for five minutes, sir.

[James Beer, Chief Executive Officer, Qu Data Centres Ltd.]

Thank you, everyone, and good morning. I'm James Beer, CEO of Qu Data Centres.

Thank you, Mr. Chair and members of the committee, for the opportunity to contribute to your timely study on the opportunities, risks and regulation of AI in Canada's strategic industries.

To begin with, let me introduce Qu Data Centres. Qu Data Centres is a Canadian-incorporated entity headquartered in Canada, backed by Canadian and international investors and managed by InfraRed Capital Partners, a Sun Life company. Our corporate structure is anchored in Canadian jurisdiction, and I'm proud to say that we have one of the only fully Canadian management teams in the industry.

Every facility is operated here on Canadian soil and by Canadian hands. We are sovereign by design and serve clients from across strategic sectors, including financial institutions, energy companies, health care providers and government agencies. Our nine facilities are strategically located across Ontario and Alberta with proven infrastructure and available capacity. We are poised to invest and drive growth domestically, and ready to scale our operations, deploy new workloads and support long-term growth.

We firmly believe that collaboration between government and industry is vital to building Canada's next generation of AI and data infrastructure. Qu is here to power Canadian innovation into the future. We are well positioned to contribute to a cohesive, sovereign nation-building strategy for AI infrastructure.

Qu shares the vision of the federal government for its next AI strategy to “accelerate the development of nation-building AI and data infrastructure, drive economy-wide adoption and help build the strongest economy in the G7.” To help achieve this vision, Qu is pleased to provide the following input and recommendations for consideration by the committee as part of its study.

First—and very importantly—safe AI systems begin with the data centres powering those AI services. Like in all strategic sectors, prioritizing domestic capacity will be key. How the federal government defines sovereign AI is one of the most crucial elements of the forthcoming strategy and legislative framework.

Qu Data Centres recommends that the federal government define sovereign AI to mean that the corporation or entity has the following attributes: data centres on Canadian soil; Canadian employees; a fully Canadian management team; and is an entity that utilizes Canadian networks, adheres to cybersecurity practices that protect its data, prioritizes Canadian partners for the delivery of services, and recognizes and acknowledges Canadian values in assessing industry participants.

Qu's position is that AI data centres are emerging as strategic and critical domestic infrastructure that already is or will be crucial to all operations of all sectors and services. The current global geopolitical context has heightened awareness about the importance of domestic capacity across core sectors.

With respect to the federal government's forthcoming strategy, Qu strongly encourages the government to prioritize the Canadian sector, aligning with this definition of sovereign AI, over foreign-controlled or foreign-located entities. A critical component of Canada's next AI strategy must be enabling the building and scaling of our domestic sovereign AI data centre capacity and infrastructure.

To this end, Qu recommends two key components as part of the next strategy and legislative framework. The first is that strategic sectors such as banking, energy, health care and defence be required to utilize sovereign data centre infrastructure and services. The second component is the delivery of new funding and tax incentives that are specifically designed to attract investment that will scale Canada's domestic sovereign AI infrastructure.

Finally, strengthening the federal government's leadership through the renewal of Canada's AI strategy will be a crucial step in scaling Canadian champions and attracting new investment.

In closing, these recommendations support aligning the sector with the federal government's priorities on digital sovereignty, security and economic growth.

Qu Data Centres appreciates the opportunity to contribute to the committee's important and timely study on AI, and would be pleased to respond to any questions to support this work.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

Thanks very much, Mr. Beer.

Mr. Sanders, the floor is yours for up to five minutes, sir.

[Dr. Barry C. Sanders, Professor, Institute for Quantum Science and Technology, University of Calgary, As an Individual]

Chair and honourable members of the committee, thanks for the invitation to appear before the House of Commons Standing Committee on Industry and Technology.

My name is Barry Sanders. I'm a professor at the University of Calgary specializing in quantum science and technology, including the pillars of sensing, communication and computing. I'm also scientific director of Quantum City at the University of Calgary and a senior fellow of the Centre for International Governance Innovation in Waterloo, where I focus on analysis and policy for emerging dual-use technologies, with quantum and AI being important examples.

I'd like to make three points about the relationship between AI and quantum technologies and why that relationship matters for public policy.

The first is AI for quantum. AI is helping advance quantum technologies. Quantum computing faces engineering challenges, especially noise, instability and scaling up the size. AI can help design better devices, improve system control and reduce errors. In quantum sensing, AI helps extract weak signals from noisy data. In quantum communication, AI can support network management and anomaly detection. In short, AI is becoming an enabling tool that can make quantum technologies more practical, more scalable and more useful.

The second is quantum for AI. Quantum computing could eventually offer new ways to perform certain computations relevant to AI, including optimization and sampling. These possibilities remain experimental today. Timelines are uncertain. That means policy should be balanced. Canada should monitor developments closely, invest in research capacity and prepare strategically while avoiding exaggerated claims that could distort near-term priorities. At the same time, AI and quantum could create parallel risks before they converge. AI is changing cyber-offence and cyber-defence. Quantum computing could threaten current encryption systems. Together, these trends strengthen the case for timely action on cybersecurity and cryptographic resilience.

The third is what this means for policy. The co-evolution of AI and quantum technologies is faster than regulatory systems are designed to respond. Both are dual-use technologies. Advances in civilian applications can also carry security implications. This creates a classic governance challenge. Regulate too early and you constrain innovation. Regulate too late and the technology becomes difficult to shape.

Canada needs, therefore, adaptive governance—a mix of legislation, standards and technical oversight that can evolve with the technology. Canada also needs coherence across government—innovation, economic development, export controls, research security and national defence, which are often handled through separate mandates. Without coordination, policies can work against each other. For example, if export controls are poorly designed for emerging quantum technologies, that could limit access to talent, supply chains or collaboration with trusted allies. Because these technologies are global, Canada should coordinate with key partners, including NATO and the G7, to reduce fragmentation and align approaches where possible.

In conclusion, AI is becoming part of the technical foundation of quantum technologies, while quantum computing could eventually influence some future AI systems. At the same time, both technologies may independently reshape cybersecurity, economic competitiveness and strategic power. This matters for Canada's long-term prosperity and security. It calls for careful, evidence-based policy grounded in realism rather than speculation.

Thank you. I look forward to your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

Thanks very much, Mr. Sanders.

Colleagues and witnesses, we'll now enter into the first round of questions.

Mr. Guglielmin, the floor is yours for six minutes, sir.

[Michael Guglielmin, Conservative, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I'd like to thank our witnesses for their opening testimony.

I think I'll begin by highlighting the fact that artificial intelligence clearly has some enormous potential. This committee is no stranger to some of the major productivity issues facing this country. Adopting and deploying AI can certainly help companies become more competitive. It can help us with our productivity issues. In telecommunications, AI could help with outages, improve network reliability and strengthen cybersecurity, something that will be very important as we go forward. The question for this committee is not whether we should be adopting AI, because that's obviously the case. The question is whether we're going to harness AI for our strategic capabilities and our strategic industries, or whether it's going to become another tool for offshoring Canadian jobs, offshoring Canadian data and really allowing Canada to lose its control over its own infrastructure and security.

Ms. Blais, I'll start with you. CUPE has criticized the federal AI consultation process as overly relying on corporate voices and not capturing enough union voices or voices of privacy experts and researchers who study AI. In sectors like telecom, where the adoption of AI could affect jobs, personal data, personal network security and national sovereignty, what risks would you say would be created if the government designed AI policy without capturing these voices?

[Nathalie Blais, Research Representative, Canadian Union of Public Employees, Canadian Telecommunications Workers Alliance]

That's a very good question. It's a big one.

Many AI-related risks are not necessarily linked to the telecommunications network. Since I am here representing the Canadian Telecommunications Workers Alliance, I will stick to talking about these risks.

As you said, jobs may be lost. The number of jobs at telecommunications companies is declining rapidly. Over the past 10 to 15 years, between 15,000 and 20,000 jobs have been lost.

There are also may other risks relating to the personal information we transmit through telecommunications networks. The generative AI systems currently in use are mainly housed south of the border. When we use them, our data is transmitted through telecommunications networks that are not Canadian. When data is not on our networks, it is not on our territory, so it is subject to the laws of the other jurisdictions. Currently, 25% of Internet traffic goes through the U.S., so any data we send through the U.S. is protected by American laws, which don't protect people as well as Canadian laws.

As far as I know, there hasn't been broad consultation about AI, and if we don't listen to what workers and the public have to say, we run the risk of overlooking issued relating to personal data and discrimination because we know that AI systems are prone to bias.

Here's another risk: If AI systems aren't designed and trained here, with our data, we may receive responses from them that aren't suited to our reality. CUPE's criticism is valid because the government seems to be focusing solely on a commercial strategy to deal with AI, not on a strategy to ensure the well-being of the population.

[Michael Guglielmin, Conservative, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Would it be fair to say at this point, from the perspective of telecom companies, that the government has focused too heavily on how quickly we can adopt and deploy AI and not enough on whether Canadians are protected from the consequences of that deployment?

[Nathalie Blais]

Yes, I think you could say that. What is plan B? We don't know exactly how AI will evolve. The experts don't agree with each other, and neither do the economists.

If significant job losses were to occur, would the employment insurance system be able to cope? We don't know. There has to be broad consultation. Right now, all the government's advisory committees seem to be focusing more on science and business development than on social development.

[Michael Guglielmin, Conservative, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Mandryk, Minister Solomon said Canada's refreshed AI strategy would come in the first quarter of this year, but as we know, that deadline has passed. The government says it's coming soon.

From the perspective of telecom workers, what's the cost of Ottawa's delaying a clear AI framework?

[Corey Mandryk, Lead Organizer, United Steelworkers National Local 1944, Canadian Telecommunications Workers Alliance]

That's a good question. I'm proud to represent the voices of telecom workers, tech workers and pretty much all workers in Canada when it comes to AI.

You can't have a conversation about AI without it eventually leading to, “Yes, but it's going to take away my job.” It is important to adopt a proper AI framework from the government and the regulations that will come with it quickly. Canadians are worried about AI adoption and AI replacing their work. We've always stood behind innovation and automation, as these are tools that will help us enhance our work. I think what needs to be part of the ongoing conversation and moving forward is how AI can be that tool.

It's great to hear from my fellow witnesses that we need to work together with the government and the industry, but a very important part of the industry is the workers, who are the lifeblood of that industry. If Canadian workers see AI as that opportunity, as my fellow witness Mr. Beer said, I think there will be some hope versus that anxiety over what's to come. That's why something from the government really needs to happen quickly to give Canadians reassurance on this emerging technology.

[Michael Guglielmin, Conservative, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

Thanks, Mr. Guglielmin.

I'mve gotten into the habit of welcoming people, and I'm going to do it again, because we have a new member on the committee.

Mr. Ntumba, the floor is yours for six minutes.

[Bienvenu-Olivier Ntumba, Liberal, Mont-Saint-Bruno—L’Acadie, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning, witnesses.

Good morning to all members of the committee. Thank you for welcoming me.

Mr. Leblanc and Ms. Blais, my team and I recently met with you in my office.

Mr. Leblanc, you represent an organization that has over 315,000 members across the country, 26,400 of whom work in telecommunications.

Today, we're talking about AI, but if we look back at the history of humanity to the present, we can see that there have been a lot of challenges. Humans have always bounced back and taken control of things.

My question is this: Can you compare the current AI commercialization landscape in Canada to that of the international market?

[Roch Leblanc]

That's a great question. Thank you for that, Mr. Ntumba.

Telecommunications workers have control over information and the ability to transfer it. AI cannot exist without a highway, and that highway is the Internet. The Internet in Canada is largely controlled by the three major telecommunications companies we're all familiar with.

What workers are currently experiencing is quite bleak because old employment models are quickly disappearing. This week, the news and the media are documenting the transformation that is currently under way. A massive transformation is taking place, but public education is lacking and Canada's major industries aren't necessarily adjusting their strategy. Instead, workers across the industry are being sidelined. People in the telecommunications sector are experiencing major upheaval. The next logical step would be to invest in retraining these workers as AI specialists because there's a high level of expertise closely tied to the existing models. However, that's not happening, and the sector is going through a major transformation.

AI is transforming things. Obviously, the Alliance agrees that AI exists. It is here and it has a lot to offer. However, we are also aware of the impact of automation and AI on our industry because we've been through this kind of thing many times over the past few decades. Our workers are very apprehensive about what's happening and the development of AI because they don't see how our industry will transition into the new era.

[Bienvenu-Olivier Ntumba, Liberal, Mont-Saint-Bruno—L’Acadie, QC]

Thank you.

Ms. Blais, your organization represents about 70,000 members.

I'll repeat my question: What should the federal government prioritize right now to support the responsible adoption of AI within the government, and across the country?

[Nathalie Blais]

There are several possibilities to consider. Some of the things the government is putting in place seem to be heading in the right direction. Talking about data sovereignty and sovereign AI is very positive.

Social dialogue is lacking, however. Workers and the general public should be sharing information. There's also the public education piece. Often, people think they're having a conversation with a person when they're using an AI system, but they're not. How do these systems work? They're probabilistic systems that use probabilities to come up with answers. If people don't know that, they assume the systems are telling them the truth, when that's not the case. That's why the public needs to be educated.

We also have to think about what will be done with AI. Knowing how this tool will be used is extremely important. Right now, the conversation is only about commercialization, not the common good. How can this tool be used to make good things happen, rather than, say, job losses that won't be offset by a sufficiently robust social safety net because we didn't anticipate what's coming?

[Bienvenu-Olivier Ntumba, Liberal, Mont-Saint-Bruno—L’Acadie, QC]

Earlier, you talked about social dialogue.

Can you expand on that? What did you mean by social dialogue?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

Please keep your answer brief, Ms. Blais. You only have 20 seconds.

[Nathalie Blais]

Okay.

We would like the government to hold consultations that include stakeholders other than researchers and entrepreneurs. We would like them to include civil society organizations, unions and workers.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

Thank you very much.

Thank you very much, Mr. Ntumba.

Good morning, Mr. Ste‑Marie. You have the floor for six minutes.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette—Manawan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to welcome the witnesses and thank them for being here. Their presence here is important.

I would also like to welcome Ms. Begum and Mr. Ntumba to the committee.

Ms. Begum, congratulations on your decisive election win.

I thank my colleague Mr. Garon for helping me out during the first few minutes of this committee meeting.

My first question is for you, Ms. Blais.

The rest of my questions will be for the Canadian Telecommunications Workers Alliance.

When the Telus representative was here for our study on AI, he explained to us that data sovereignty involves three things. First, Canada's data protection laws must apply. Second, no foreign laws should apply to this data, especially not laws that would require the data to be shared with the government. Third, no foreign kill switch should be able to interfere with data management.

People talk a lot about data storage, but they don't talk as much about data transmission. Recently, Rogers relocated its Internet network operations to India. However, Indian law requires that all data be made available to the Indian government. Keep in mind that there have been tensions between Canada and India recently.

Should telecommunications networks be protected from offshoring that could expose us to potential foreign interference?

[Nathalie Blais]

For sure. I think the regulations are lacking in that department. Bill C‑8 could address some of that, if the government were to determine that certain supply chains and services are harmful to the system.

However, I think we can be proactive and decide that certain offshoring plans should not proceed. You mentioned Rogers. Rogers' cell phone system, its cell phone control centre, is now in India. My colleague, Mr. Mandryk, can tell you more about how things work there. Indian law says that all data stored on equipment located in India can be seized by the government.

Thus, a government that is not necessarily friendly to us at the moment can access our data.