Evidence of meeting #27 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was countries.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Richard Dicerni  Deputy Minister, Department of Industry
Carole Lacombe  Acting President, Canadian Space Agency
Karin Zabel  Vice-President and Chief Financial Officer, Finance, Canadian Tourism Commission
Virendra Jha  Vice-President, Science, Technology and Programs, Canadian Space Agency

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Ladies and gentlemen, I'll call the meeting to order.

This is the 27th meeting of the Standing Committee on Industry, Science and Technology. We are discussing the estimates today. We are televised as well.

Pursuant to the order of reference of Tuesday, April 25, 2006, we are discussing the main estimates for 2006 and 2007. We are discussing the votes. I won't read all the votes, but these are the votes under Industry Canada.

We have with us three special guests.

We have the Minister of Industry, the Honourable Maxime Bernier. Welcome, Minister.

We have the deputy minister for the Department of Industry, Richard Dicerni. Welcome, sir.

We also have with us the senior associate deputy minister, Carole Swan. Welcome, Carole.

Minister, we will have an opening statement from you of up to ten minutes. Then we will proceed directly to questions from members of the committee.

You may begin at any time, Minister. Welcome. We look forward to your opening remarks.

3:30 p.m.

Beauce Québec

Conservative

Maxime Bernier ConservativeMinister of Industry

Good afternoon and thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to thank the committee for having me.

First of all, I'd like to introduce the people with me. They are Richard Dicerni, Deputy Minister at Industry Canada; Carole Swan, Senior Associate Deputy Minister at Industry Canada; and Kevin Lindsay, Chief Financial Officer. As you can see, my team is highly qualified.

I'll be pleased to answer all your questions, but first, I'm going to take the time allotted to me to tell you a little about the direction Industry Canada has taken in the past few months. Being five months since my last presentation to the committee, I would like to take a few moments to do a bit of a review.

As you know, Industry Canada's mandate is to expand and encourage the growth of the Canadian economy. We think it is necessary to continue modernizing and improving Canada's market place frameworks in order to ensure stability, fair conduct and competition for businesses, consumers and all Canadians.

We want to encourage investment in innovation. By creating a positive business climate through the measures in Budget 2006, we see greater access to capital, thriving entrepreneurship and efficient and productive allocation of resources. Canada's new government is working to reduce barriers to entry to Canadian markets, as well as to reinforce business confidence and consumer trust in their economy.

Since I last appeared before the committee, I have had the opportunity to meet my provincial counterparts in Halifax, in September. As a result of that meeting, I firmly believe that the governments — the provincial and territorial governments, as well as the federal government — will be able to work together to make progress on the issue of interprovincial trade. At that meeting, we issued a press release in which we stated our will to see that, by 2009, there is real freedom of movement of individuals across the country.

We firmly believe in internal trade, and we believe that the more we lower barriers to internal trade, the more Canadian businesses will be able to establish themselves in global markets and achieve economies of scale.

Canada's new government is aware that foreign investment plays an important role in the Canadian economy. Foreign investors bring knowledge, capabilities and technology that can help increase the productivity, efficiency and competitiveness of Canadian firms.

As you know, the international competition for foreign investment is intense. Canada must create and maintain a positive environment that signals to the rest of the world that this is a great place to do business and that our country is open to international trade.

Your manufacturing study identifies certain challenges. I had the opportunity to read your preliminary report, and I see you've clearly defined a number of indicators that the manufacturing sector has a challenge to take up with regard to competition, that is the rising Canadian dollar — some say we should call it the weakness of the U.S. dollar — increased energy costs and emerging competition from the Asian countries. All Canadians, together, must find creative solutions to attract foreign investment and achieve the goals we have set for ourselves, which are a more productive and more open economy.

These issues that you have clearly defined are a reality for most industrial sectors. You have had occasion to meet the stakeholders of various industries, who have come to tell you all about their challenges.

It will be a pleasure for me to read your final report in the coming weeks and to forge a consensus with you on an action plan for the manufacturing sector.

Let's talk about our Canadian manufacturing sector for a few minutes, more specifically the aerospace and defence industry. I'll also talk about other industries a little later. The Canadian aerospace industry is a world leader that enables us to have fair business opportunities. It supplies products, services and components of a very high technological level.

I met with Canadian companies while at the Farnborough International Air Show this summer and again at the national association meeting this fall. I understand the dynamics of the aerospace industry in which they operate. We can only be proud of the way this industry meets the challenges it faces. Our government is still committed to supporting the aerospace and defence sectors so that they continue to be highly dynamic.

Canada's automotive sector has been called the industrial backbone of our nation. I recently had the opportunity to meet with the Canadian Automotive Partnership Council. I had occasion to meet the industry people in Toronto and to visit businesses in the automotive sector. I was very pleased to see how the groups and people cooperate on a number of common issues. My department and I are going to continue meeting with these people and attending their forums so that we can develop a highly competitive automotive sector.

Our government knows that some of our sectors, such as manufacturing, have major problems. The clothing, textile and wood products sectors have been particularly hard-hit. I'm very pleased that this committee is focusing on solutions in detail. I look forward to reviewing your report's findings for ensuring that those industries remain competitive. As you know, there have been job losses in the manufacturing sector, but it must be emphasized that those losses have been more than offset by the strong job gains in other areas. So far this year, 210,000 new jobs have been created in Canada.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON

On a point of order, Mr. Chair.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Yes, Mr. Karygiannis.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON

The minister is reading from a text. It is customary that we should be given a copy. Is there a possibility that the minister could stop his speech until we get a copy of the speech? I'm sure the minister and his staff certainly could have photocopied extra copies, rather than just the one that is with the translator. Until that's done.... I'd like to see copies, both in French and English.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Do we have a copy of the speech in French and English?

Do you want the minister to hold off until we have the two sets of copies?

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON

I'd like to see it in French and English. The last I checked, this was a bilingual country. Tradition is that when a minister delivers a speech—

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

We don't have a speech in either language.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON

Are we following blind? It is customary when the minister goes in front of a committee that a copy of the text is given to the committee members so that they can follow along in both official languages. If that's not the case, I don't think the minister is fully prepared.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Mr. Karygiannis, I would just remind you that I was a member of a committee, on the opposition side, in which ministers of industry rarely had copies. In fact, Alan Rock never had prepared text when he appeared before a committee.

Do you want the committee to stop and hold off until we have—

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON

I'd like to have a copy of the minister's speech in both French and English. I'm sure the minister will probably disseminate this after he delivers it. I don't see what the problem is with our having a copy. I'm sure his staff can certainly send somebody over before he continues, but we should have copies of it.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Mr. Carrie.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON

I'd like to offer that we will be able to make copies available by the end of the meeting, if the member would so like.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Have any other members a comment?

We can follow what the minister is saying. There is translation provided. I would prefer to go ahead with the speech and go ahead with the questions at the end of the speech.

Is there any other objection?

Okay, Minister, please proceed.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Maxime Bernier Conservative Beauce, QC

So far this year, 210,000 new jobs have been created in Canada. The unemployment rate is close to its 30-year low. The government will continue to ensure that the manufacturing sector remains an asset to our economy.

I'd like to talk about the tourism industry. That industry is facing a new challenge, the U.S. government's Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative. I plan to meet soon with provincial and territorial tourism ministers to examine how we can work more closely and cooperatively with each other, and with the industry, to support competitiveness in our country's tourism industry. I'm also working with my Cabinet colleagues, in cooperation with the U.S. government, to help reach our shared goal of keeping the border open to legitimate trade and travel, but closed to terrorists, criminals and other threats to our national security.

We need to ensure that our legislation works well within current economic realities. We must pay attention to our continued success in the area of research and development. Budget 2006 included a commitment of $200 million over two years to support the federal granting councils: the Canada Foundation for Innovation, Canadian Institutes of Health Research and the Indirect Costs of Research Program. In the last budget 2006, we also announced a science and technology review. I have started that review in cooperation with Finance Minister Jim Flaherty.

Our ultimate objective is to enhance Canada's prosperity and competitiveness through science and technology. We must also reduce red tape that our businesses must deal with in order to meet government requirements. We must make life easier for Canadian business people, and I hope that your final report contains recommendations on reducing the regulatory burden.

As you know, one of the projects my office has worked on is telecommunications reform. The telecommunications sector in Canada and throughout the world is evolving on a daily basis. Given its critical importance to Canada's economy and future well-being, we need a regulatory framework that can adapt to these rapid changes in technology. The recent findings of the report by the panel that studied the telecommunications regulatory framework, a report that we received last March, confirms that our regulatory model is vastly outdated. The expert panel made 127 recommendations to update our regulatory system, and I am trying to address these.

As you know, on June 13, I put forward a proposed policy direction that instructs the CRTC to rely on market forces to the greatest extent possible and to regulate only where necessary. Our government had ordered the CRTC to reconsider its decision on Voice Over Internet Protocol, as we feel this decision was based on dated thinking and did not reflect the current environment. We are now looking at this decision again, as the CRTC reconfirmed its original decision.

Our goal is to bring the telecom industry into the twenty-first century. Canada needs telecommunications policies that reflect current technologies and anticipate future changes. Our election platform, the last federal budget and the Speech from the Throne, reflect one of the major priorities of our government, which is to further enhance our economy through policies that encourage free competition.

One of our strategies is to boost the economy. We've done that by making 29 tax cuts for businesses and individuals. Those cuts will amount to $20 billion over the next two years. We are also bringing federal spending increases under control through much tighter discipline and focus on expenditures. This focus on fiscal restraint is shared across all departments and agencies of the government, including my department, Industry.

Earlier this year, our government announced the results of our expenditure review exercise. We have identified considerable savings, and spending, according to our government, will always have to be determined in accordance with efficiency codes. Our government will make responsible spending the norm.

We will require that all new and existing programs go through a systematic and rigorous examination. This will ensure that we approve funds that are actually needed for Canadian priorities in an effective way and one that provides value for money. At Industry Canada, some of our programs were affected. I can talk about the textile industry, where we reduced CANtex funding by a total of $24.9 million a year over the next two years. Why? Because the rate of take-up by the industry in past years has been less than anticipated. The program was thus able to achieve its objectives with an overall envelope reduction of $24.9 million.

Turning to tourism, the government invests more than $300 million annually in tourism-related activities. This includes operating funding for the Canadian Tourism Commission, investments in national parks, historic sites and museums, and business development through regional development agencies. The Canadian Tourism Commission returned $5.7 million to the government's Consolidated Revenue Fund. These funds were originally allocated for the CTC move from Ottawa to Vancouver and were not used. The move came in under budget. And, despite efforts to promote the GST visitor rebate program since it was introduced in 1991, less than three percent of the 35 million annual visitors to Canada actually apply for the rebate. We therefore eliminated the program. The reduction of the GST rate to six percent will make Canada more affordable for Canadians and for visitors to Canada.

Finally, funding for Technology Partnerships Canada is being reduced by $42.2 million over two years. There will be no impact on existing projects or those in the pipeline. These measures are part of this government's commitment to Canadians to make sure its spending gives taxpayers the best value for their money.

In closing, we are aiming to create the right conditions for economic development in Canada. We need to continue to foster an environment where the market place functions as efficiently as possible. We need to encourage investment in Canada, in innovation, and in research and development. We need to reduce the paper burden Canadian businesses face. And we need to be constantly looking at initiatives that will foster a more productive economy.

I would like to close by thanking the committee once again for inviting me. I'm prepared to answer your questions and to listen to your comments. Thank you.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Thank you very much, Minister.

Just to inform you, we will have one round of four questioners of six minutes each and then we will likely have two more rounds of questioners of five minutes each. We should be able to get all our members in today. I just ask members to keep to time, and I will obviously try to allow as much time for the minister to answer as the questioner hasn't used up.

We will start with Ms. Kadis, for six minutes, please.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Susan Kadis Liberal Thornhill, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and welcome, everyone.

Minister, your government seems to me to have been in a holding pattern to date. You said repeatedly yourself that your government was being too slow with the commercialization of research and technology. Yet one of the first things that was done in the budget was to cut the commercialization pilot program. Can you explain this disconnect with the seeming contradiction? And could you further provide the committee with details of these cuts?

If I may add, along these lines, I'm deeply concerned that you're moving away from federal government funding for research and wish to encourage only through industry's investment and tax credits exclusively. Are you planning to get out of the business of government investing in research and working collaboratively with business? Other countries are not. They're going the other way, doubling their investment.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Maxime Bernier Conservative Beauce, QC

Thank you for your question. I will be precise in telling you that it was a pilot program, as you said. We didn't develop and we didn't have terms and conditions of this program that were in line with industry. So we didn't use this money, and we decided to cut this by half to be sure that the other half would be useful. It was a pilot project, but—

ultimately, this project did not meet the terms and conditions. It also didn't meet the industry's expectations.

I'd like to turn the floor over to my deputy minister, Mr. Dicerni, who can provide you with a few more details on the project.

3:50 p.m.

Richard Dicerni Deputy Minister, Department of Industry

I think it's important to look at that particular project in the context of other departmental initiatives in support of commercialization and knowledge transfer.

For example, we are working with the National Research Council, which has its IRAP program that is very much focused on this. We're also in close contact in terms of universities, which have increasingly raised the number of VPs of technology transfer. We've met with a number of universities to pursue those particular initiatives. Third, NSERC has an industrial partnership program aimed very much at emphasizing innovation and commercialization knowledge transfer.

The particular program you're referring to was indeed in the budget, but the specific criteria, the specific terms and conditions associated with this, were not fleshed out. So it was in the context of not simply throwing money out without being able to situate it within the context.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Susan Kadis Liberal Thornhill, ON

Sure, and I appreciate that response, but I'm concerned in a more global way. I see a pattern in the other direction, of other countries--the United States and Australia, etc., and much more India and China--doubling their investment and research, the governments themselves. Again, I'm very supportive of industries and of the partnership and synergy we're trying to encourage in some of the projects we did. MaRS, which I know you support, is a prime example.

I want to know, and I'd really like to hear today, if you are moving away from that, the government subsidies and response, because that seems to be what I see happening since your government has come into office. It's a big concern regarding the goals that I believe we all have.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Maxime Bernier Conservative Beauce, QC

No, absolutely not. That's why, in the last budget, my colleague Jim Flaherty, together with the Cabinet, stated that we were going to review the situation regarding science and technology and research and development in Canada.

I conducted consultations over the summer with various groups, including groups of academics. I went to Vancouver, Halifax, Montreal, Toronto and Edmonton to meet with academics concerning basic research and to meet business people who want support for marketing and research and development. A number of suggestions and ideas emerged from those consultations.

As we said, in the coming weeks, we'll again be requesting Canadians' cooperation and ideas on the priorities that this government should target with regard to research and development. Furthermore, in the coming weeks, we'll be asking the industry to provide us with comments. So that reflects the fact that this is important for us.

When I went to London, to Farnborough, I met with people in the aeronautics industry, but I also met with people from the London government to discuss their policies on science and technology and R&D. So we have reports that won't just be Canadian, but also reports from other countries. In addition, in the coming months, we'll be developing a strategy on science and technology. We'll be asking Canadians and experts to help us. All this committee's suggestions will therefore be welcome for the purposes of our process of reflection.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Susan Kadis Liberal Thornhill, ON

Do you have a timeline for when we could expect that national strategy?

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Maxime Bernier Conservative Beauce, QC

In the next economic update, which my colleague Jim Flaherty will do a couple of weeks from now, we will our have objectives for science and technology. The consultation will be official, with all the public. As well, we'll know more after that about the budgetary cycle.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Le président Conservative James Rajotte

Thank you, Mr. Bernier.

Mr. Crête.

3:55 p.m.

Bloc

Paul Crête Bloc Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, minister.

I'm going to go straight to the heart of the matter. On June 6, you told us about the Technology Partnership Program, saying that it was under observation. Today, you tell us that the projects that were already under way will continue, but there are businesses waiting for decisions.

You mentioned aeronautics. For example, Bombardier's CRJ900X is a project that has been under review, I believe, since the last government, and there's still no answer. The Premier Tech Centre in Rivière-du-Loup had a request that was awaiting a decision before the election was called last fall.

Can you assure us that this program and these projects, for example, will move forward in the short term? This is one of the major tools our businesses have in dealing with the crisis in the manufacturing sector.