Industry Committee on Nov. 23rd, 2006

[Mike Vince, President, CAW-Canada]

Thank you for the opportunity, and especially on short notice.

One of the things that is a myth and I think is important for this committee to understand.... We understand it's a global market and there is competitiveness within the industries, but when it comes to change, we understand that there's a need for change.

In the packets I gave out earlier I give a very brief history, going back to 1981, coming out of the 1979-80 recession. Where did Ford Motor Company come to? They came back to Windsor, because of the highly skilled, dedicated workforce within Windsor, Essex County, and Chatham-Kent.

We ended up putting new buildings into place under modern operating agreements with flexible work rules. We did that through the early eighties and into the nineties. Again we were able to achieve the Windsor engine plant and annex, which produces the Triton engine for the F-150, the top-selling pickup truck in North America.

Then just recently we were able to put together an agreement with one of our companies. We have two Nemak plants that are joint ventures. We were able to secure in that facility a General Motors block, which was highly unique, because those facilities were all Ford and still are Ford-owned, and the employees are paid by Ford.

If we look back at the history, as Mr. Bernard mentioned, just a short three years ago we had 6,200 people working at Ford in Windsor. We are presently at 3,800. By this time next year we will have lost another 2,200 people.

The spin-off effect within this community is approximately one in seven. The business community looks and sees what's happening within the community. It's so far-reaching that in this community right now there are somewhere in the neighbourhood of eight or nine restaurants for sale. It is not only the auto and auto parts sector; it's all the businesses within this community.

I think it is really important, and the one thing we did that's shown in the packets is hold a town hall meeting to try to bring the entire community together, to take partisan politics out of it and to really talk about what this community and this region are going to look like a couple of years down the road.

As Mr. Persichilli said, it is more than just a crisis. I think Canada is at war when it comes to the auto industry, and we're losing. We need to ensure that we have all levels of government looking after their constituents in Canada.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Mr. Masse.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Mr. Moynahan, as well as manufacturing there is also the issue of national security. If we lose all our capability to manufacture, assemble, and also create moulds and other designs that are necessary for industrialization, we'll be at risk.

Can you provide an example of what we would lose if we didn't have the capability and lost all our tool and die in the future?

[Dan Moynahan]

This sector has numerous spin-off jobs also. It is just the same as the big three.

The thing is, we're going to give these people who have the advantage.... They have one advantage: they have low-cost labour. As far as quality goes, their quality does not match North America's. As far as their deliveries go, we can deliver as fast, if not faster, and our costs for freight are a lot cheaper. So they have one advantage on us.

The thing is, we have to continue to train and we have to continue to develop with the new technologies and invest in the new technologies. It is one thing to have the technology, but you have to have skilled people to use it. That's where we'll be separated from the low-cost countries, because they just use numbers of people and work them around the clock 24 hours a day.

It's pretty hard to compete with that. We don't have enough people, and people in Canada deserve and earn a good living.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Is there any time left?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Well, you're at six minutes, but everybody else took seven.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[Dan McTeague, Liberal, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

On a point of order, I realize the questions that are being asked are very important, and I appreciate what Mr. Vince has given us here. We may have time for a few more minutes at the end for ours, but we'd be quite willing, with the consent of the committee, to allow the three or four minutes we might get at the end to go to Mr. Masse. I know there are some very important issues I want him to bring up--of course, with your consent, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Well, the Liberal Party has the next spot.

[Dan McTeague, Liberal, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

We'd cede that to Mr. Masse.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Mr. Masse will have the next five minutes as well.

[Dan McTeague, Liberal, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

If you wish it.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you. That's very generous.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Is there consent for that? Okay.

You have another five minutes, Mr. Masse.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Great. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Dan and Susan, for allowing this.

Mr. Persichilli, I know you've been involved in St. Clair College and the University of Windsor with a number of different research and training projects. Can you elaborate on some of those things?

One of the things I'm concerned about is that our young people coming up--and we've heard this from other testimony--might be dissuaded from going into this industry to get training because they don't feel there are going to be jobs at the end of their training through education criteria afterwards. Can you tell us what's happening in your business that is new and exciting and can actually be prosperous?

[Patrick Persichilli]

Absolutely.

Brian, you're right, I think it's becoming increasingly more of a hard sell to convince young people to enter the skilled trades, because there is a perception, and it's a correct perception, that it's a dying industry. Why become a machinist or a tool apprentice if the tooling industry or machine jobs won't exist ten years from now? The view is it would be a waste of their time and they're better off looking at other areas for them to find gainful employment.

One of the ways we think we could change that perspective, which would help us tremendously in terms of becoming more competitive globally, and I keep going back to this, is again through innovation and research. One of the impacts or effects of additional research and development, the development of innovation in terms of niche product development, is the creation of a different type of manufacturing economy.

One of the inadequacies that we see right now at the university level, our main vehicle for research in this country, is the fact that most research endeavours, such as a centre of excellence, even something like the MMO, are all driven by curiosity-based research. It's pure apply-type research. We need to focus more on a commercialization strategy where we are looking at developing innovations that we can bring to market. Every day Canada falls significantly farther behind countries like Germany, China, and India, where they focus their research efforts specifically on developing products that are new, innovative, and that can be brought to the global marketplace. That would help us attract young people into niche employment sectors because we will have niche products that are able to compete globally.

I can give you an example. Right now we are looking at a research opportunity with a university, and this particular university has just informed us that they're not interested. Why? Because it doesn't fit the academic or pure research criteria. However, there's a tremendous opportunity for global commercialization. It's a small investment but with incredibly high returns. What does that communicate to industry? That our infrastructure is not capable or supportive of what we need to do to create jobs, improve our economy, and make sure that young people have and can get the tools necessary to help us compete.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Mr. Moynahan.

[Dan Moynahan]

I'd just like to expand on that a little.

Where our company and I personally have put our focus is we're all the way down to the grade school level now. We're down giving tours to the kids in grades 7 and 8, showing them the technologies.

One of the problems we face is with the parents and even guidance counsellors, for that matter. Three months ago I had three buses full of guidance counsellors come through my shop, and they were completely amazed at what we had and how the people worked: people don't sweat; our plants are air-conditioned. You have the old stigma that these are sweat shops and everything else, and nothing could be further from the truth.

We approach it with the young people, trying to encourage them and letting them know what's there, that these jobs are available. We don't wait until they get all the way through high school and are looking to graduate in grade 12. With the Ontario youth apprenticeship program, we even hire these kids while they're in grade 11 and they earn wages as well as time towards their apprenticeships.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Excellent.

Go ahead, Gary.

[Gary Parent]

I emphasized this in some of my previous remarks, but I want to do it again. When we're talking about training, we're talking about education. As a share of GDP, education budgets in Canada are lower today than they were in 1999, and 20% lower when you compare them to 1993 levels. How in the heck are we going to compete globally at the same time that our governments are not allowing funding for an education system that has to be as competitive as what we're competing with?

If you look at the countries we're competing with, they absolutely spend more money out of their GDP on education than we do today. I think that's an important fact that sometimes gets overlooked when we're looking at setting up budgets federally or provincially. I think that's an absolute detriment to us as a result.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Okay.

We're well over time, Mr. Masse.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you.

We'll go to Mr. Shipley.

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and also thanks to the panel for coming in.

I just want to go back to the educational part, because I get the feeling we're a little concerned about not having enough skilled trades. That came from Mr. Bernard. Then we hear a mixed message, in a way--why are we doing these if we aren't going to have a manufacturing industry? I'd like to get your comments in terms of Canada and an attitude towards manufacturing in this country. I'd like to have that component of it.

Talk to me a bit also about the image. I know you've touched on it. Mr. Persichilli, I think what you have done in terms of working with a college is what is needed. We heard that last night, actually; I think it was in Toronto.

There seems to be this disconnect. We've talked about the disconnect between education and what is actually needed in the industry; I understand the cut in dollars, but let's take the dollars and make the best use of them. Can I get some comment on those two issues, please, about the image? How can we change that?

I think what I'm hearing and what we also heard last night is you're starting now at grade school. I think it's likely that part of it is not just the child, but the parents. What we've seen over the last few days is not the perception that most people will leave in industry; these places are much more like hospitals than like the old-style shops that we would have in our mind about manufacturing. I ask that of two or three of you.

[Patrick Persichilli]

I'll quickly address both aspects.

Image--it's almost become a cliché. If you walk down Ouellette Avenue, walk into any corner of this region in Windsor or in Essex County, there are businesses for sale, there are people out of work, there are families hurting. How do you change the image? You grow the industry.

When I say cliché, all we have to do is look across the border to Flint, Michigan. That has become clichéd, because Flint, Michigan, which was a growing economy, full of life, vibrant, and an economic centre, was destroyed because manufacturing was forced to move out. That is not a far-fetched scenario here in Windsor and in Essex County and in many other places in this province.

How do you change that image? You grow the business. You continue to reinvest. You create jobs. You work with your partners--CAW, your suppliers, and your entire value stream. It requires investment to create jobs. The image needs to be changed, because if we're going to attract young people, we need to have an industry to attract them to. Unless we invest in that industry so that it exists in the long term, we can forget about investing in any type of educational program.