Evidence of meeting #46 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 39th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was rural.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON
But why can't you call that consumer back and ask why you haven't heard from them? If they tell you that Bell just made a better deal, why can't you say, okay then, we'll give you this?
Persona Cable
What am I supposed to do, cut it again? There's a certain cost of entry here. It's big bucks.
Conservative
Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON
That's what happens to us. Believe me, that's what happens to us.
Persona Cable
You know what? That's ridiculous. It absolutely is.
I've given you a concrete example here that says there's no way we'll ever win a customer, and you're telling me to put my money into that? You can't be a small business owner. That's a joke.
Conservative
Conservative
President, Distributel
Mr. Van Kesteren, if we are talking about win-back, the distinction is that this is not something that happens before the sale.
I agree with you 100%. The consumer can go from supplier to supplier to supplier, solicit the best deal, and then make his choice. But what we're facing in a win-back situation is that after the consumer has made their decision--and maybe they don't call the telephone company and ask them for their best deal--the telephone company, by virtue of having control of that customer, knows about the transaction, and they are the only one of the competitors who does. And then in a very specific and targeted way, they approach that customer after the sale has been made and roll out their best deal.
If you bought a television set from retailer X as opposed to retailer Y, you've made your choice, and the sale is done. Retailer X doesn't call you back the next week and say, bring the TV back and we'll give you a sweeter deal.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Access Communications Co-operative Limited
I think there are three critical differences here. You talk about a big capital investment to get into the business, but the question is whether you would get into that business if the only other car dealer in town had been the only car dealer there for a hundred years; and the second difference is that they were selling exactly the same product, exactly the same Honda with no differences, and they would know every car you sold five days in advance of your delivering the car. And then the question is whether you'd make that $1.5 million investment to get into the business.
Conservative
Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON
Is there a possibility that if you had some time...? Are you looking for some time?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Access Communications Co-operative Limited
We're on the same page here. We think market forces ought to rule the day. The only question we have is that before we go in and make these large investments, we have to be assured that the business plan works, that there's a payback; that if we have a sustainable number of customers in a market like Weyburn—or Sudbury, for that matter—we can make a payback on the investments to get into it. We're putting in stand-by power, we're upgrading our networks, we're providing a lifeline service to consumers.
Conservative
Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON
I understand all that, believe me. I do; I know what you're talking about.
Does somebody else want to comment on that?
President, Bluewater TV Cable
Just taking it one step further, using Mr. Deane's comment, in our situation we're buying the cars from that other incumbent car dealer. I have to buy telephone service from the incumbent. Then I have to call the incumbent and tell them that the customer is switching. That takes ten days. Bell then has ten days to call up that customer and offer them a sweeter deal to take them back—before the customer even has a chance to take our service.
Conservative
Bloc
Robert Vincent Bloc Shefford, QC
Thank you.
In your opinion, what should we recommend to the minister so that you can remain on the market, once the next seven months have elapsed?
President, Distributel
First, keep our wholesale tariffs available to us. They've hinted that they're going to take those away.
Second, keep restrictions on win-backs until the market power of the former monopolies has been diminished sufficiently that they don't have this exclusive access to our clients.
And third, stop politicizing this process. Keep order in the process, as we had it before, and don't have the rules change on us at the snap of a finger.
Bloc
Robert Vincent Bloc Shefford, QC
Does anyone else have recommendations to make?
Please go ahead, you still have time.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Access Communications Co-operative Limited
Certainly. We've said that in the ten largest CMAs in the country, where competition is already vibrant, just do what you like. But in small markets where smaller players are getting under way, we believe the market test ought to stay the same; that the 25% threshold for forbearance ought to be the same. The win-back restrictions ought to remain until that test is satisfied.
Persona Cable
The win-back provisions absolutely defy logic. To allow the incumbent to talk to your customer and resell them before you ever hook them up is absolutely debilitating. As long as that's in effect, there's no incentive to get into the business, I can tell you. There's no incentive to provide rural Canadians with a choice that's going to provide them with better, lower-cost service.
Bloc
Robert Vincent Bloc Shefford, QC
Each member of this committee has his or her own opinion of the report and of the minister's intentions. Today, you have the chance to talk to us about the possible unintended adverse effects of the new measures on your companies. As Mr. Stinson was saying, these new measures could even cause some companies to have to shut down.
To your mind, what would be the best solution: the status quo, or making changes? We are interested in knowing what you think, so that we can integrate your thoughts into our next report. You have good ideas. I think you're on the right track, but I would like to have more details, so that we can build upon the suggestions you are going to make.
