Industry Committee on Feb. 27th, 2007

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Yes.

[Wendy Sol]

We represent workers at Bell Canada, which is the largest provider of telecommunications in the country. We represent the majority of telephone workers in Canada.

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Bell Canada and other players have to lose 25% of their market before being allowed to compete. Could this cause job losses for your members?

[Wendy Sol]

We saw a lot of job losses with the deregulation of the industry and the two-tier system throughout the nineties, so it's been devastating. We have a situation right now at Expertech where Bell Canada wants to see 25% concessions in wages and benefits in order to compete. This is what they're demanding of our members. Bell Canada is announcing that they're going to close down that operation if the workers won't take those concessions.

So there's a big pressure on our workers and members to take concessions. There are a lot of negotiations on attrition, with members leaving, and they aren't creating any new well-paying jobs for Canadians, particularly in the rural area.

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

These job losses will have impacts elsewhere in the country. It will not happen only in a given area, but all over the country. Also, as you said, there might also be job losses because Bell Canada will need to make some cuts due to deregulation. The company will still have to provide efficient service but it will also need to be competitive. You are convinced, and this is what we read in the papers right now, that Bell Canada wants to cut costs in order to be competitive.

Do you believe there will be further job losses down the road because of this deregulation? Do you think deregulation is good for your union?

[Wendy Sol]

We don't see a rosy picture down the road. We see the loss of a lot of meaningful, good-working, long-term positions. Once upon a time you could will your job to your children in the telecommunications industry, and that's no longer the case. In the telecommunications industry, MTS is considered a small player. I fear that if SaskTel is no longer a crown corporation we'll have only two large telco companies in this country, Telus and Bell Canada, and we're really going to see less competition.

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Along the same lines, we are told that it takes three players in order to have real competition. So this means wireline service from Bell Canada, cable service from Vidéotron and cellular service. But I have a hard time seeing how cellular companies could be part of this competition because they are going after only one part of the market.

On the other hand, cable companies and Bell Canada will be able to offer the full range of services, such as satellite TV or TV over the Internet. Interconnections will be established in order to offer better packages and continue to do business with consumers.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Okay.

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

I did not have time to phrase my question.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Well, we're right at six minutes, so....

Ms. Sol, would you like to respond to that?

[Wendy Sol]

I would agree with you that the losers are going to be Canadian citizens who don't live in the big urban centres.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Okay, thank you.

We'll go to Mr. Van Kesteren.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Madam, for coming to join us.

I just want to talk—not a whole lot—about foreign ownership.

Do you not think we can compete with the Americans?

[Wendy Sol]

In telecommunications?

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

Yes.

[Wendy Sol]

It's not a question of being competitive. We certainly don't have the market or the access to the numbers, so when the Americans come into Canada, they're not going to go to the Thompson, Manitobas, of the world and to small communities. But the real fear is not being able to compete; it's the access to private information that will be subjected to the American laws. We are going to lose control of that.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

Let me put your mind at rest. I don't know whether your union has looked at this, but Mr. Vincent and I both chair on the ethics committee, and that would be an impossibility. Through PIPEDA, we have safeguards for that, and I think the other members should realize that too; that should any company come into Canada, they have to abide by the rules and the laws set in place by PIPEDA. It wouldn't be any different from any others—unless you know something that I don't know. But then you maybe should—

[Wendy Sol]

Our experience with insurance companies has been different.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

I don't know if this is a place to debate that, but maybe you should come in front of our committee to talk about those things, because we've grilled them extensively on that, and I think there's absolutely no chance of it happening.

Tell me, what are you most concerned about—and it's a fair question—your employees or consumers?

[Wendy Sol]

Our members are consumers, so it's six of one and half a dozen of the other.

This isn't about the union and being able to survive; this is about being able to provide good telecommunications. This is Canadians' culture. We have 33 million citizens in Canada. We are such a vast country that to be able to reach out.... To some communities, it's the only link, and if we have players who are only concentrating on where the money is to be made, we're going to have Canadian citizens who aren't going to have any access to the outside world, because they don't have the infrastructure.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

But are you not aware that since we began the deregulation process in 1993, this industry has exploded, and the result has been that we're seeing more service and that more communities are being served. Don't you think that if we continue in that process, that will continue to happen, that we will—

[Wendy Sol]

No, that has not been our experience. More services are being provided because of technological advances, but it's not solely because of competition. I can tell you that in the remote areas there is less opportunity, and the services are either not available or very prohibitive in cost.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

I don't want to go here, but Mr. McTeague brought it up. Are you in favour of Bill C-237, of that legislation being passed?

[Wendy Sol]

Do you mean Bill C-257?

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

Yes, Bill C-257, pardon me.