Industry Committee on May 28th, 2008

[Richard Florizone]

I'm sorry. I'll pause there.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Okay.

Thank you, Mr. Carrie.

We'll go to Madame Brunelle.

[Paule Brunelle, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Mr. Florizone, I like universities like yours very much and I congratulate you on your work. I am from Trois-Rivières, where we have the Université du Québec à Trois-Rivières. It has a hydrogen research institute. There is also a research centre on small business, which has become well-known in Europe and is generating returns on the investment. I believe strongly in universities that are well integrated into their communities and I find it really interesting to hear about your research centres.

You say that funding for operational expenses in research centres is a problem. This morning, we were told that the second and third phases of the expansion of the centre are underway. I asked how it would be funded, and they specifically mentioned foundations.

With foundations providing part of the funding, does business contribute too?

[Richard Florizone]

Responding to your point on integration into the community, I think the University of Saskatchewan couldn't agree more. Part of our overall strategic plan is to build an engaged university that's meeting the needs of the local community. When we consider funding solutions, it's another important piece in why we need to think about provincial participation, and certainly we've seen that with CLS and InterVac.

The funding of our centres really has been a mix. By and large, the major funding has come from federal agencies. That can include NSERC, CIHR, NRC, Western Diversification. We've also had varying components of provincial support. With the Canadian Light Source, the Province of Saskatchewan and, as I mentioned, three other provinces were partners in providing the capital. We're now in discussions with the Province of Saskatchewan on operating funding for the facility. With regard to VIDO/InterVac, again provincial and federal dollars are an important component.

Concerning the industrial revenue for the Canadian Light Source, the target over the long term is to get to 15% industrial revenue. We're not there yet. We've only, as you'll recall, started to produce scientific output really in the last 18 months, and so the industrial revenues have been on the scale of several hundred thousand dollars, relative to a budget of some $18 million. But we're confident that in the next five years we will get to approximately 10% to 15% industrial support in revenue, and we've put the team together to achieve that.

[Paule Brunelle, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Mr. Chair, I would like to finish with a purely personal observation.

The living environment here interests me a great deal. There has been a lot of talk about the development of research and the economy, and that is all very good. But we have also been told that the cost of housing has doubled, skyrocketed. I hope that some effort is going into creating a pleasant environment to live in. If you want to keep your young people and attract families, you are going to have to consider the standard of living, especially in culture and the arts.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you, Ms. Brunelle.

We'll go now to Mr. Van Kesteren.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, panel, for coming this afternoon.

Mr. Florizone, I want to continue from where Mr. Carrie left off. You answered the question well, but what about his comments about running that thing 24/7? I understand that research has to be done, and the idea is for research to take place. Would you first do your research or would you first take care of business?

[Richard Florizone]

To answer that question, first, to clarify, it is run 24/7, except for scheduled shutdowns for operations and maintenance. Again, to improve efficiency, another aspect of that is the partnership with CANARIE to do the remote data collection so that people cannot necessarily travel, but also be able to get the data and run experiments remotely.

In terms of the priority, that's a tough question. I think the reality for a university is we need to serve our entire mandate, so we need to have that curiosity-driven research and the industrial research. You really can't have one without the other. If you focus just on the industrial, you're not necessarily getting the right people there, the graduate students, getting that real forefront of science. And yet if you don't have the industrial mandate, you risk not being as relevant to society. So it's a real balancing act.

We haven't run into those issues yet since we're still new. I think one of the things we're toying with is setting particular targets by beam line, so assigning 25% of the time to industrial and then allocating time according to that. So by agreeing on high-level targets with governments, with our funding agencies, we can then drive that down into the operations of the facility and reduce any of those conflicts, I hope.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

For instance, in the recent move with MDA, it became apparent that the satellite was pretty much paid for by the federal government by way of contracts. Is that something that happens with the federal government as far as some of the imaging and some of the experimental work that's done?

[Richard Florizone]

The intellectual property?

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

No. The federal government forwarded the money by means of contract; in other words, the satellites took a certain number of images.

Can the federal government do that? Is there some benefit to the federal government if, say, the Department of Health needs to have some information on whatever imaging you can do for them, that you can pay for some of the machinery? Is that something you approach?

[Richard Florizone]

I think that's something we'd consider and I think that's one of the business opportunities we're looking at. Clearly there's a whole piece here, that this facility can be used to meet regulatory requirements for industry, but then maybe for government as well. So that is a market segment we'd look at.

I'm not sure if I've answered your question.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

Yes, you have.

What's the shelf life of that thing? How long is it good for?

[Richard Florizone]

I think if you look at these facilities historically, probably every 20 years or 30 years you're looking at upgrading to the next generation. But it's hard to predict the future. I certainly would expect two to three decades of very solid science out of the facility, but things are always moving.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

Okay.

I don't mean to zero in all my questions to you, but you said there were 20,000 students, and I wanted you to clarify.

[Richard Florizone]

That's correct.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

Are there 7,000 staff?

[Richard Florizone]

In total, yes.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

So the ratio is 3:1. How's that in comparison to other universities?

[Richard Florizone]

That's roughly in line.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

Is that right?

[Richard Florizone]

I have to remind you that also it's not full-time equivalents, it's head count. So it does include, in round numbers.... Sometimes you hire students as graders in the system, you have post-doctoral students. When you have a major research enterprise, a lot of staff is involved. Our ratios are quite typical for a Canadian university.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

What would the average tuition cost be, including residence, for a student?

[Richard Florizone]

I should know the number offhand. The tuition for an arts and science student is in the neighbourhood of $5,000 a year, and residence, depending on whether you have a meal plan, might add another $5,000.

Maybe a more accurate answer, instead of the quantitative one, is to know that until a few years ago we had a national norms policy. We were basically benchmarking our tuition against a national group and picking the middle. In the last few years that has fallen by the wayside a little bit, because the government has funded, effectively, a tuition freeze. So our tuitions are maintained at 2004-05 levels.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

So it is roughly half the cost of tuition in the United States.