Evidence of meeting #42 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was funding.
Conservative
Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON
Does anybody else want to comment on that from their own experience? Are you using the universities' work?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Hydrogen and Fuel Cells Canada
Absolutely, and we have a number of networks. We have a PEM fuel-cell network, a hydrogen research network, and a solid oxide fuel-cell network outside of Alberta. They're tied into universities across the country, identifying the research expertise of each professor. We have a website where we tie in and they can find out what each is doing.
Getting back to your question of collaboration, absolutely, it's critical.
Conservative
Conservative
Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON
I asked a question earlier to one of the professors. I fear somewhat that as a government, because we're so obsessed with getting results for the money that we spend, we tend to funnel and herd them in a certain direction. Is that the right approach? Should we just let academics go out there and do what they're good at, discovering things? Will you get the benefits if we adopt or go back to that process?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Hydrogen and Fuel Cells Canada
Actually, the government does now. Many programs require researchers who are getting money to link in with the private sector. You have to have a certain matching amount. That sort of guides the research that they do. But I think you do need some fundamental pure research going on, and you don't want to hamper that at the same time.
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Day4 Energy Inc.
I taught at universities for 12 years. These are the places where knowledge is discovered. I think the idea of coupling it into the industry provides a mechanism to get it applied--for example, the sponsoring of research chairs and that type of thing. The mandates that the team that's working on whatever project it is be both industrial and academic are very positive things.
But I don't think one should ever get carried away with trying to force professors into applied research if they don't want to go there, because they won't.
President, ASL Environmental Sciences Inc.
I could add that the interface between university and industry is highly variable in Canada right now. In some places and with some programs, it works quite well, and in other places it doesn't work at all. That's an area in which we could do a lot more and try to be more uniform.
It's true about university technology transfer offices; better yet is active collaboration by bringing industry in at the research stage. Industry will decide what makes sense and what doesn't in terms of going further, but often now I think there are Canadian companies that aren't even engaged, and that's maybe a missed opportunity.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Rajotte
Thank you, Mr. Van Kesteren.
As chair, I will just take a few minutes again to impose on your time.
I'm interested in your comments about the IRAP program and I want to ask about solar energy, but can we get some further feedback about why the pre-commercialization program was cancelled?
You said, Dr. MacDonald, that IRAP is being ruined. You probably have a big answer to that, so if you want to give us--
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Day4 Energy Inc.
I'm sorry, what was it you just asked?
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Rajotte
You said the IRAP program is getting ruined by the accountants.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Rajotte
That's a big question, and you may want to touch on that, but I do really want to ask about solar. My riding actually has the Imperial Leduc No. 1 well. It was the biggest oil discovery in 1947 and started the modern oil industry in this country, but Alberta, I'm told, has a greater percentage of days of sun than any other province, and I think it's a shame what my own province has done in not utilizing that at all.
Last weekend I was down in New Mexico at the Sandia national research facility on solar energy, and I just think it's astounding how we haven't utilized it. California is apparently going 20% solar by 2015, a very ambitious target; you've mentioned what Germany has done.
In my own riding a small solar provider gave me an earful and said Alberta is the most backward place in the world in terms of solar energy. He talked about the feed-in tariff and about something else you need in terms of getting on the grid, but then he also talked about the way in which the small solar producer interacts with the grid, and there has to be a neutrality or something. Can you enlighten us on that?
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Day4 Energy Inc.
I'm not quite sure what he meant. The small producer.... The utilities don't like distributed generation, but the future will have to be that way, so there's a lot of work to be done.
When you interact with the grid, there has to be an interface so that when the solar is producing energy, it's feeding it into the grid or you're using it yourself. It's basically free energy in terms of the fuel.
I'm not quite sure what he would have meant by balancing.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Rajotte
The term applied the way you just said it: at certain times someone will be feeding in, and at other times the person will be utilizing it.
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Day4 Energy Inc.
Oh, yes, absolutely.
Conservative
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Day4 Energy Inc.
In fact Xantrex, which is a Canadian company here, specializes in the equipment that does that.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Rajotte
Is the feed-in tariff something the federal government should do, or should the provincial governments do it? Should it be joint?
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Day4 Energy Inc.
It would depend on who has the constitutional responsibility, I suppose. You guys know more about that than I do.
It's basically legislation that makes the utilities do certain things, and I described it. Ontario, as I say, has this so-called standard offer program, which is in fact a feed-in tariff structure. It's the only province in Canada that does. It works very well, at least in my experience. It's a procurement system. You could do the same thing with the Bay of Fundy or wherever, because we're going to need renewable energy. Starting projects by whatever means....
Look at what we did in B.C. when W.A.C. Bennett was premier: we built all those dams. That was done by government. This is the same thing, 21st century style. It's the same concept. It's infrastructure for future energy generation. Provinces such as Alberta and Saskatchewan--provinces that are basically fossil-fuel-supplied--should be very interested in that.
You're quite right about the solar insolation supply: Alberta is the place. Southern Alberta is the sunniest place in Canada, and southern Saskatchewan too; the two of them are together.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Rajotte
For your information, our colleague, the chair of the environment committee, Bob Mills of Red Deer, is spending about $55,000 to make his home a solar home and put power into the grid. It's interesting that because he's an Albertan, they made him join the Alberta energy producers. So there's Suncor, Syncrude, EPCORP, TransAlta, and Bob Mills. I thought you'd find that interesting.
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Day4 Energy Inc.
He's in there with all the bad guys.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Rajotte
I see I'm out of time. We can have a bit of an off-the-record discussion afterwards.
I want to follow up, Mr. Fissel, on what you talked about with respect to SR&ED. Perhaps we can do that offline, because I know members have to catch a flight.
I want to thank you. It was a fascinating panel. If you're ever in Ottawa, please let us know. We'd be glad to get together with you again.
Colleagues, thank you very much for this week. It was a fascinating and wonderful experience.
I want to concur with what one of our colleagues said earlier today. Thank you to all of our staff who helped us out this week. It was a trying experience for them, and hopefully as enjoyable for them as it was for us.
Thank you.
The meeting is adjourned.