Industry Committee on June 3rd, 2008

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

I call the 43rd meeting of the Standing Committee on Industry, Science and Technology to order. We are continuing our study, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), of Canadian science and technology. We have with us here today six federal departments to discuss what they're doing with respect to science and technology.

From the first department, the Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food--and we were at the facility last week in Saskatoon--we have the director general of the research branch, Gilles Saindon.

From the Department of the Environment, we have the acting assistant deputy minister of the science and technology branch, Mr. John H. Carey. Welcome.

From the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, we have Jacqueline Gonçalves, director general of integrated business management. Welcome to you.

From the Department of Health, we have Ms. Karen Dodds, assistant deputy minister of the health policy branch.

From the Department of National Defence, we have the chief of staff, office of the assistant deputy minister of science and technology, Mr. René LaRose.

And from the Department of Natural Resources, we have the associate assistant deputy minister and chief scientist, Mr. Geoff Munro.

We have up to five minutes for an opening presentation for each witness here. Then we'll go to questions from members.

Members, we do have a motion from Madame Brunelle, which we will hopefully deal with in the last 30 minutes of this meeting. So we will go for about an hour and a half with the witnesses, and then we'll have the motion for 30 minutes at the end.

Mr. Saindon, we'll start with you and then work our way down.

[Gilles Saindon, Director General, Research Branch, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I would like to give you an overview of the Research Branch of Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada. It is the main national research organization in agriculture and agri-food in Canada. We carry out research activities in 19 centres across the country, including 13 affiliated research stations where we have employees, as well as a number of real property assets. Last week, you visited one of our research centres, in Saskatoon, where we are working on oilseeds and biodiversity. We have a little more than 2,200 full-time equivalents across the country. The annual research budget is approximately $200 million. The budget associated with capital projects and equipment use is not included in that amount. Another division of the Department pays for that, which represents expenditures of about another $100 million.

The AAFC research branch has been engaged in a variety of collaborations over the years. We have staff who are embedded in university faculties. We have research centres that are located at the university campus. We have staff and facilities that are shared with other governments, so we have provincial governments co-located in some locations across the country. And we've done all kinds of collaborations from casual, ongoing collaborations that were established between scientists, to structured programs, such as the matching investment initiative. We still have that program, and it has been running for the last 12 years, where we've had over 3,000 projects.

In order to answer the challenge of the sector, AAFC held an extensive stakeholder consultation process in fall 2005, where we met with provinces, stakeholders, and other science providers. As a result of this, we developed our science and innovation strategy, which was released in May 2006, where we identified seven research priorities, which are basically these. We're working in the area of human health and wellness, in the area of enhancing quality of food and safety, and we're also working on the security and protection of the food supply. Other areas of research are enhancing economic benefits for all stakeholders, environmental performance of the agriculture system, understanding and conserving Canadian bio-resources, which was one of the elements you saw in Saskatoon, and also developing new opportunities.

So we have priority-based objectives.

We have to ensure that the science we do meets the criteria for excellence and also aligns with department priorities. So all of our research proposals are screened in two ways: first, scientifically, with an external panel of specialists who tell us the science is excellent; and we also have another management review within the department to make sure it fits with the priority of the department and the government as a whole.

In the area of collaborations, we've been working and developing new ways of doing collaborations. Last year we announced the agriculture and bio-products innovation program, a new program we issued for $145 million that is competitive and peer-reviewed, and it's targeting agricultural bio-products. It's available for industry, universities, and other government departments, including ours.

Given the need for cross-organizational interactions, promoting a strong culture of collaboration both within the Canada and with other countries is a must. So, the message I want to leave with you today is that, given the significant challenges we are facing, increased engagement of the Canadian private sector will be important for us, as part of a framework of renewal and collaboration, so that we can accomplish this with the private and public sectors at the same time.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you very much, Mr. Saindon.

We'll now go to Mr. Carey, please.

[John Carey, Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Science and Technology Branch, Department of the Environment]

Thank you very much for the invitation to appear and talk about Environment Canada's science. I do have a written statement, which I'm not going to read. I'll just give some of the highlights of the statement.

Environment Canada, like a couple of the other departments at the table here, but not like some others, is primarily a regulatory department, although we do provide services to Canadians, such as weather service. Our science is aligned towards the needs of the department and, to a certain extent, because environment is a shared jurisdiction in Canada, to the needs of the provinces as well. Although there may be several reasons why the federal government would support and do science, including economic benefit or the advancement of knowledge, the primary motivation for Environment Canada is in health sciences, quality of life, the decisions the government makes, and the services we provide to Canadians.

I just wanted to emphasize that, because there are several roles for the federal government in science, and we have focused our science within the department on the role Environment Canada plays, as opposed to the advancement of knowledge, which is another group's business.

Another feature of our department is something we call related science activities. It's important to separate, in our view, research and development activities from what we call related science activities, because two-thirds of the science in Environment Canada falls within the category of related science activities. We have 3,500 employees in science and $600 million in expenditures. Two-thirds of those are in related science activities and one-third in research and development.

To give you an example, related science activities would be the analysis of climate data or temperature, etc., to produce weather reports. Environment Canada, of course, produces weather reports across the country. The meteorologists who do that have science backgrounds, science qualifications, but they do not do research and development.

Similarly, we have a large community. We work in partnership with my colleague to my right to do risk assessments and risk management under the Canadian Environmental Protection Act, for example. We have a large community of risk assessors and risk managers. All of them have scientific qualifications, but they do not do research and development. For us, it's important to draw that distinction. We employ scientists doing science who don't do research. In fact, two-thirds of the science community in Environment Canada, 2,400 people, fall within that category.

With respect to our research and development, we do research and development within the department. We have three broad goals. Our program itself, unlike the management of people, which we separate, is managed through a results framework with three priority boards: an environmental protection board, where our risk management and risk assessment take place; an ecosystem sustainability board; and the weather and environmental systems board. All three of those boards establish our broad results and our priorities, and the science is managed as a component of that rather than as a science program separate from the results. The scientific priorities set within each of those have broad results areas and are managed that way and are resourced through those boards.

Second, the point I'd like to raise is that we have scientists across the country. I don't know if during your visit to Saskatoon you visited our facility on the campus there, the National Hydrology Research Centre. We have scientists located at 35 locations across the country, many located in universities, where they work in strong collaboration. Our science, because it's focused on results and not on the generation of knowledge per se, requires us to make some priority decisions and to rely on collaborators outside, who do more broad general research, curiosity-driven research, which informs us. The strategy we have employed to do that is to establish collaborations. Most of our scientists are adjunct professors at universities. So we pursue these collaborations.

The other thing I'd like to draw to your attention is that Environment Canada is in fact the hub of Canada's environmental research network. We've done some metrics. With respect to peer-reviewed scientific publications, the environmental research literature, we are the most productive institution in Canada and we rank seventh globally. With respect to other organizations who collaborate, ten of the other fourteen most productive Canadian institutions collaborate with Environment Canada scientists. As I said, we work very closely in collaboration with other departments, etc.

My final point would be that because we manage people different from our results management system, we've produced a science plan about the way science is managed in Environment Canada. It's available on our website--and it's certainly available to this committee--and it talks about our broad, long-term directions.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you very much, Mr. Carey.

We'll go now to Ms. Gonçalves, please.

[Jacqueline Gonçalves, Director General, Integrated Business Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans]

I'm going to focus my remarks on a very brief overview of the Department of Fisheries and Oceans science agenda, and I'm going to focus on three specific things.

First of all, I'm going to give you a very brief overview of our mandate and our resources. Secondly, I'm going to describe our renewal agenda that we've put in place in the last couple of years. Finally, I'm going to touch more specifically on one aspect of that renewal agenda, which is our science human resources strategy. We've put that in place in order to deal with some very pressing challenges.

As some of you might know, DFO has a very broad mandate. Surrounded by three oceans and home to a very vast freshwater system, Canada is one of the foremost maritime nations on the planet. In addition to our primary internal clients, such as fisheries management, other departments rely on Fisheries and Oceans science for a wide range of scientific information. Some of our colleagues here today--Environment Canada, Natural Resources, Transport Canada, and CFIA, the Canadian Food Inspection Agency--rely on that information, and we work very closely with them.

Beyond the traditional fisheries clients, we work collaboratively with and provide advice to the various industry sectors, such as the energy sector. We provide direct products and services to Canadians, primarily hydrographic charts for navigation--tides and currents--for the use of shipping companies and the recreational boating community.

The science that's conducted at Fisheries and Oceans is very much regulatory in nature, as Dr. Carey indicated. In keeping with our mandate, and as stewards of Canada's oceans and freshwaters, our focus is on habitat protection, fisheries management, and safe and sustainable development.

Fisheries and Oceans has 1,700 staff, nationally, who work in and around science. They're not all research scientists, but they work in related fields, such as technicians, hydrographers, etc. Less than 10% of them work in Ottawa. We're a very decentralized department. We're situated in about 15 major institutes and laboratories across the country.

Over the last few years, funding for the science sector in Fisheries and Oceans has been stable, and in some cases it has been increasing in some targeted areas.

In recent years, like many other science-based departments and agencies, Fisheries and Oceans has faced delivering services in a more complex environment and with increasing demands for scientific information, advice, and products and services. In order to address these challenges, we instituted a full-scale review of the science program in 2002 and 2004. What resulted was a science renewal framework for the future, which we have since begun implementing. It focuses on guiding our modernization agenda, and it also seeks to ensure that the DFO science program is relevant, effective, affordable, and valued.

Some of the key pieces of that renewal agenda include the development of the five-year research agenda, which we now have, and an ecosystem science framework to guide integrated ecosystem-based management. We've modernized our service delivery by creating 12 centres of expertise, and ecosystem research initiatives as well, across the country. We've developed a human resources strategy. For our governance, we've established a science management board, and we've also developed an outreach strategy in order to get our message out about what we do for Canadians. Of course, all of these activities are aligned with our work in implementing the federal S and T strategy.

Given that the scope of the aquatic and marine science required to deliver our mandate exceeds our capacity within one sector, collaboration isn't only important, it's absolutely critical. Our approach to collaboration is multi-faceted, and it permeates every aspect of our research agenda. If you're interested in further examples of some of those collaborative efforts, I would invite you to read our latest annual science report.

In order to deal with our HR challenges, we've instituted a very detailed HR action plan. I'd be very pleased to provide you with additional details on that.

In closing, I would like to say that in the near future we're going to focus our attention on improving collaboration, building our capacity, strengthening our relationships, and working to implement the federal S and T strategy.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you very much, Ms. Gonçalves.

We'll go to Ms. Dodds, please.

[Dr. Karen Dodds, Assistant Deputy Minister, Health Policy Branch, Department of Health]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I am pleased to meet with you to discuss the science at Health Canada.

I would like to begin with a brief overview of Health Canada's mandate and the importance of science to our Department.

Health Canada depends on a strong foundation of science and research to fulfill its mission to help Canadians maintain and improve their health.

The role that Health Canada has as a regulator impacts Canadians every day. We are responsible for many pieces of legislation, including the Food and Drugs Act, the Tobacco Act, the Pest Control Products Act, the Hazardous Products Act, and many more.

As you know, Minister Clement recently tabled two bills, one that proposes a new Canada Consumer Products Safety Act and a second that proposes amendments to the Food and Drugs Act.

In 2006-07, the department spent an estimated $330 million on science and technology. Science is needed for the department to develop policy, to define regulations, to evaluate products from prescription drugs to heart pacemakers, blood products, pesticides, and food additives, and to gather information on health-related issues.

Health Canada scientists, representing over 30% of the department's employee base, perform a variety of essential functions. They assess the health risks posed by contaminants in the environment, standardize methods for determining the level of things such as acrylamide in food, perform surveys on the levels of radon in houses, conduct research on the toxicological effects of chemicals of concern, develop nutrition policies, and promote healthy eating.

To ensure a solid science base for its decision-making, Health Canada partners with the Canadian Institutes of Health Research (CIHR) and other health portfolio organizations, federal science-based departments and agencies, governments in Canada and other countries, and international organizations.

We are active with the United States Food and Drug Administration and the Environmental Protection Agency, with the European Medicines Agency, and the UK Food Standards Agency. We have MOUs with colleagues in China and Australia.

We're active in the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development work on chemicals with our colleagues at Environment Canada. The department also collaborates with scientists in universities, colleges, non-governmental organizations, and industry.

To further illustrate the science activities of the Department, I would like to briefly mention several current initiatives.

The contribution of science-based government departments and agencies and the importance of health are both underlined in the May 2007 federal science and technology strategy. Health Canada is collaborating on delivering on the federal strategy and on the three Canadian S and T advantages it emphasizes.

Health Canada advances the knowledge advantage by maximizing linkages and partnering opportunities. The department's increasing ability to make better use of the talents of existing scientific personnel and those of new graduates also contributes to the people advantage.

The Department is also contributing to Canada's Entrepreneurial Advantage by putting in place an effective, forward-looking and responsive regulatory environment that protects the health and safety of Canadians, while avoiding unnecessarily impeding innovation. For instance, federal regulatory approval times for new drugs have continued to improve over the last few years. We have streamlined our processes, applied project management techniques, and increased resources in the areas where they were needed, thus managing to significantly reduce our backlog.

Since Health Canada, like other federal science organizations, is challenged by an aging infrastructure and workplace, we are exploring new approaches to ensure that our Department is adequately resourced, effectively managed and focused on delivering results. For example, the Department is developing a plan to address the shortfall in laboratory infrastructure funding. Health Canada is also introducing measures to support greater employee recruitment and retention.

For example, we recently completed a coast to coast recruitment drive, visiting 13 universities. We were focused on scientific personnel, and over 1,500 students and graduate students were interested and spoke to us about possible employment. We were able to make some on-the-spot job offers.

In summary, Health Canada produces, accesses and uses excellent science in support of its mandate to contribute to a healthier population. The department is also aware that in the ever-changing global environment, we need to keep pace with science and technology developments.

Health Canada is committed to staying ahead of the curve, and through the science and technology strategy we are developing, we are putting in place a plan to ensure that we have the science we need to protect the health of Canadians.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you, Ms. Dodds.

We'll go to Mr. LaRose, please.

[René LaRose, Chief of Staff, Office of the Assistant Deputy Minister of Science and Technology, Department of National Defence]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

To begin with, I would like to present some of the facts contained in the written brief you have before you. I will give you only a brief summary of those facts.

First of all, I'd like to state that at Defence, science and technology is considered a strategic enabler for both the Canadian Forces and for the department itself. In recognition of this role, science and technology is overseen at the ADM level, an ADM of S and T, in this case, who is accountable to both the Chief of Defence Staff and to the deputy minister.

As the departmental chief scientist, the ADM is expected to ensure that an appropriate science and technology perspective is brought to the table during executive level decision-making. The Assistant Deputy Minister provides functional direction across the Department on the direction, delivery and implementation of the Department's science and technology program. The ADM is also the authority for Canada's national and international science and technology collaborations in defence S&T. In fact, the current ADM, Dr. Bob Walker, is in discussions with NATO allies today on cooperation programs, and is unfortunately unable to be with you today.

Cooperation with Canada's defence allies is a critical element of our approach, with some 500 collaborative activities underway at any one time, principally with our NATO allies, as well as with Australia and New Zealand.

The ADM is also the chief executive officer of Defence Research and Development Canada, known as DRDC. DRDC is the primary in-house S and T capability in the department, with other capacity resident at the Royal Military College and in the department's materiel and information management groups. DRDC also maintains a strategic relationship with other federal S and T organizations, most notably with the Communications Research Centre and the National Research Council, both of Industry Canada, which deliver part of the S and T program for Defence, but in the domains that are consistent with their own mandates.

DRDC employs some 1,600 staff, including some 1,200 science workers who are among Canada's best and brightest, and work in seven different sites located all across Canada. Our annual budget is about $350 million, and the Department has also agreed that renewal of DRDC's infrastructure will be a priority, with implementation expected over the course of the coming ten years.

Strategic direction to the Defence Science and Technology Program is provided by the Department's Defence S&T Strategy, which was released by the Deputy Minister and the Chief of the Defence Staff in 2006. Through this strategy, the Department has committed to an investment in S&T amounting to 2 per cent of the Defence budget, a number comparable to that made by Canada's principal allies. The investment is growing in absolute dollars, in step with the growth being realized in the departmental budget as a result of the Canada First Defence Strategy.

From this strategic direction, the ADM of S and T provides annual functional guidance to the department regarding the priorities for the S and T investment. Current priorities include delivering S and T solutions to pressing operational problems related to the CF operation in Afghanistan--for example, counter-IED; helping deliver a single integrated CF command and control system, which is a major project for the Canadian Forces; helping develop the appropriate strategies and policies to recruit, train, and retrain the CF personnel; and ensuring leading-edge technologies are positioned in industry to meet future procurement needs of the CF.

This program comprises some 200 multi-year S and T projects across seven broad areas of military capability. Approximately 40% of the program is aimed at short-term solutions, within five years, and 30% for long-term solutions, more than ten years. Each year approximately one-quarter of our program--20% to 25%--is renewed as projects end and new projects start.

A key feature of our department's approach is that approximately half of our program is delivered to our internal capacity, our DRDC centres, and half is delivered to external capacity. With this approach, DRDC and DND have a long history of success in being able to transition and position the technology industry to be able to satisfy the needs of both the Canadian Forces and the international community.

Finally, I would like to close with a few words regarding public security. Through an agreement between DND and Public Safety Canada, DRDC essentially functions as the S and T arm of public safety. To this end, DRDC coordinates a broad range of public security S and T activities that engage some 20 federal departments, agencies, industries, and academia. The whole program, when we include the partners,

amounts to some $80 million a year.

Within this short timeframe, this is the best I can do to give you a broad overview of what the incentive program is, both for defence and public security.

Merci.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you very much, Mr. LaRose.

We'll go to Mr. Munro, please.

[Geoff Munro, Associate Assistant Deputy Minister and Chief Scientist, Department of Natural Resources]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Like my colleagues, I'd like to provide a quick overview of NRCan and the S and T we do there.

Natural Resources Canada is a science-based policy and program department, so science and technology plays a critical role in addressing the challenges and opportunities in the resource sectors. We've organized the work within NRCan around three strategic outcomes: the natural resource sectors are internationally competitive, economically productive, and contribute to the social well-being of Canadians; Canada is a world leader on environmental responsibility and the development and use of natural resources; and natural resources and land-mass knowledge strengthen the safety and security of Canadians and contribute to the effective governance of the country.

Working to that agenda, we have the three major components of sustainable development, which is the driving force for Natural Resources Canada. Our goal is to provide our policies and programs based on strong research and evidence. S and T clearly is at the core of that evidence.

We are a significant science performer in the Government of Canada. Our S and T budget runs more or less, on average, at $500 million per year, with some 3,000 people in the department working on S and T, of whom 475 are actual research scientists. The scientists are fully engaged in the global science community, contributing new knowledge through significant peer-review publications and through work in their academic settings, where they're helping to grow the next generation of Canadian scientists.

I would note that two-thirds of our research scientists hold adjunct professorship status with universities across the country, and the dialogue box on the bottom of page 3 gives you a sense of Canada's long tradition of natural resources-based S and T.

The map that follows on page 4 gives you a sense of NRCan S and T happening across the country, literally coast to coast to coast. I would point out that these facilities act as important home bases, but that we have a significant contribution in the area of seasonal field camps, permanent survey plots, and other research outposts. So the NRCan S and T presence is felt right across the country.

We have a variety of research activities that are, for the purpose of discussion, broken down on slide 5: doing the actual development of new knowledge associated with natural resource-based activity; applying that knowledge to generate new use and activity in both the economy and by natural resources industries and the provincial government, given the dynamic of resource ownership in jurisdictional issues between federal and provincial roles; monitoring, which is a significant role; and then transferring new knowledge and new technologies to the industry for both commercialization and use.

We work with a variety of stakeholders.

If there is a key word as regards science and technology in Canada at this time, it is certainly “collaboration”. It is absolutely essential that we have partners and establish partnerships in order to implement the results of our science and technology strategy.

NRCan is fully engaged in the innovation system. We have well over 1,000 S and T collaborative arrangements. You'll notice on that slide that besides our $500 million, we leverage about another $300 million through collaboration every year. That's done both in kind and in cash. Whatever collaborative arrangements might be appropriate in a given circumstance are used. Many of those collaborations, indeed, are with my colleagues sitting here at the table.

As a final wrap-up slide, I've identified as examples four successes of the different components of our S and T program.

In innovation in forest research, I'd be happy to discuss, either today or at a future opportunity, the creation of FPInnovations, which is a partnership collaboration with the private sector institutes in forestry and with the government, whereby we have taken what we think is a bold step in creating a somewhat unique partnership to help that particular sector of the economy.

In carbon capture and storage, we are partnering with a number of public and private organizations in moving that whole idea and the whole technology to support it forward.

In the area of synergies in manufacturing research, I'm sure committee members are familiar with the move of one of our laboratories to McMaster. That is much more than a co-location; it is the opportunity to create a really dynamic, multi-partnered collaboration.

Concerning alternative supplies of natural gas, we've just been through a partnership with Japan, as a matter of fact, in terms of the proof of concept for producing natural gas from gas hydrates in Arctic permafrost. That too is an aspect of the work we're involved in.

This is just a sprinkling of some of the activities of NRCan's S and T.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you very much, Mr. Munro, for your presentation.

I thank all of you for your presentations. I know five minutes is a very short time to talk about everything your department is doing. We'll obviously have a question and answer session, but if there's anything further that you want this committee to look at, please feel free to submit that to us.

We'll start members' questions with six minutes for Mr. Simard.

[Raymond Simard, Liberal, Saint Boniface, MB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you to all our guests. My comments are addressed to Mr. Saindon.

First of all, I would like to commend you, as well as your Department. We saw some very impressive things in Winnipeg, such as the CCARM and your research centre in Saskatoon.

You said that you have about $200 million annually to devote to research. How do you decide where that money should be invested? Is there a departmental committee which determines with whom you should collaborate? Are those decisions made by the central government? That is my first question.

My second question relates to research on biofuels. When we visited Saskatoon, we realized that you are very well positioned to conduct research in that area. At the same time, we heard very little about your research efforts.

Are you conducting research on biofuels? People are questioning the science these days. It seems you would be very well placed to conduct research. Is that part of your plans?

[Gilles Saindon]

Thank you for your questions.

In terms of how we spend the $200 million allocated for research, the Department has committees in various branches—for example, market policy and development—which provides assistance in developing an investment strategy.

Once employees or infrastructure are in place, however, it is not quite so easy to move investments around as time goes by. However, we can, to some extent, influence the budgets allocated to research projects.

You referred to biofuels. In Saskatoon, we are trying to develop a different type of mustard seed—an oilseed not used in food production. That plant could be used to produce biodiesel fuel. There are other options as well.

[Raymond Simard, Liberal, Saint Boniface, MB]

There does not seem to be a focus on biofuels. Is that correct?

[Gilles Saindon]

We are making some effort in the area of agricultural substrata. Of course, Natural Resources Canada has the greatest involvement there.

[Raymond Simard, Liberal, Saint Boniface, MB]

Merci.

Ms. Gonçalves, you talked about renewable energies.

One of the things we heard, as a matter of fact, was from some people working with wave energy. We asked the question, is there the same collaboration between Fisheries and Oceans and their organizations, either university research organizations or the private sector, as there is with Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada?

The message was clearly no, there's not as good a collaboration, and Fisheries and Oceans doesn't seem to be at the same level when it comes to that kind of collaboration.

Could you expand on that, please?

[Jacqueline Gonçalves]

I'd say that the whole area of tidal energy, wave energy, is now on the rise. One of our centres of expertise that deals with oil and gas and other energies is now incorporating, as part of its mandate, wave and tidal energy as part of its research base, and of course that research is done in collaboration with universities and with industry.

That particular centre of expertise—the acronym is COOGER—is probably one of the most interconnected centres of expertise we have. They have very vast networks with industry in particular, but also with universities.

If you'd like, I can provide you with more specific details on that.

[Raymond Simard, Liberal, Saint Boniface, MB]

Is there something you would need from us, that this committee could recommend, basically, to bring it to the same level as the other departments? Am I mistaken in saying that maybe you're not at the same level or the focus hasn't been there?

[Jacqueline Gonçalves]

I think in the past the focus hasn't been there, but it has grown substantially in the last few years, and we're now faced with, obviously, specific projects coming forward. So I think that focus is there now.

[Raymond Simard, Liberal, Saint Boniface, MB]

Mr. Carey, you spoke about two different activities, research activities and related science activities.

I've had the pleasure of visiting the Environment Canada offices in Winnipeg on a regular basis, and what I find is that they are very innovative people. They're not working on the research side, but a lot of these people have developed their own software because they needed to. I'm wondering how you could tie in that R and D to these people who are working on the ground to make sure these new technologies are developed.

One of the scientists there had developed software to predict tornadoes, or something, that was world-class and is now being used all around the world.

So is there a disconnect between the people working for Environment Canada on the research side?

[John Carey]

Thank you for your question. It's one of the reasons I brought up that other activity. I tried to describe in my brief comments that there is no disconnect, because it's not managed as a research program separate from these others, for example.

We have three priority management boards, and under the weather and environmental services board, all of these activities are collectively managed so that we have the weather predictors. You talked about the regional science centres, as we call them, which is the group meant to take research and, as we say, “operationalize” it so that the weather predictors can use it. There are three separate activities all connected and managed with one common purpose, which is to improve weather prediction and to carry it out.

[Raymond Simard, Liberal, Saint Boniface, MB]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you, Mr. Simard.

We'll go to Madame Brunelle.