Industry Committee on June 12th, 2008

[Dr. Martin Taylor]

—to follow up with that level of detail, we would gladly accept that and work together to do that. I think the thing I should say is that we have had the opportunity in advance of today to exchange views, so we are talking to you as a collective as much as we are in terms of our individual interests. So we would be very, very happy to provide you with our own thoughts on both the magnitude of the challenge as well as the mechanisms whereby that might be resolved.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you.

Mr. McDonald.

[Dr. Art McDonald]

I would say that we're very willing to do that and we'll come back to you with some more specifics.

The broad-based things that we can say today are, number one, that it is broadly acknowledged that the operational costs for large capital facilities, as was said by Mr. Taylor earlier on, are roughly 10% per year; that is, 10% of the capital expenditure is required per year for the long-term operation. Secondly, it's important that in this case there is a good peer review mechanism, and it's also very important that there is some stability and a look ahead at the longer term in order to enable the management of these facilities to do planning.

So the detailed mechanisms within the existing framework could be some combination of existing agencies, but those things have to be a part of what you're dealing with in the longer term.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you.

Mr. Sinervo.

[Dr. Pekka Sinervo]

I agree completely with Dr. Taylor and Dr. McDonald on the overall framework.

My only other comment is that committee should not be afraid of the concept of accountability within the scientific community.

[A voice]

Absolutely.

[Dr. Pekka Sinervo]

That is something we live with every day. We live and die on the basis of peer review, on the basis of the success or failure of our experiments. That has to be an element of any ongoing program to support these sorts of projects.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

My time is running short, but I have a very troublesome question that was given to me by Ray Simard and that I'm going to put to you. You can offer a yes or no answer, or you can follow it up. It was a good question.

He asked, is there ever an end to the big science projects, or do you just continue to build, just as SNOLAB was built on what was done before? Is there ever a point at which you say, we've done what we've done in this area and there's no reason to continue?

[Dr. Art McDonald]

I'll give you a concrete example. The Sudbury Neutrino Observatory borrowed $300 million worth of heavy water for use in its facility. We have met all of our scientific objectives and, as of last year, we returned that money. We now have a facility that has significant capabilities, and we have identified a future use of it—but for different science. We are perfectly happy to be peer reviewed on that.

I think this enables me to reiterate something that I said before, which is that if you're going to deal with big science facilities, whereas operations right now are the problem for them, you should have a mechanism that decides in the first place what is the best of the new facilities being forward, that deals with the construction and the commissioning, and then deals with the operations, but finally, one that also asks these facilities continually to be accountable for whether or not what they're doing is still relevant and whether they have already met their objectives.

We have no problem with being accountable. We do it yearly to our peers, and we're happy to do it in this case.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you.

I'm out of time, gentlemen, but perhaps you want to give a yes or a no.

[Dr. Martin Taylor]

Yes, we have to make choices, but we have made some critical choices for the right reasons and now we have to follow through on them.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Okay.

[Dr. Pekka Sinervo]

On the astronomical facilities that Canada has invested in, there have been four generations of facilities. We're not running those old facilities any longer, and we don't expect to be running the current generation 10 years from now.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you.

I want to thank you for your time and for being very patient with the two votes we had in the middle of the session.

It was a very interesting session. If there is any further information you may want to add, especially with respect to some of the questions, please submit that to me or the clerk, who will ensure that all members get that information. Thank you, again, for your time.

Members, we have a few housekeeping items before we go to question period, so we'll let the witnesses take their leave and we'll deal with those items.

First of all, as an update, the services sector report will be tabled in the House of Commons this Tuesday. There will be a press conference. It is scheduled for Tuesday, at 10:15 a.m., after the presentation of the report in the Charles Lynch room. We have seven passes to get into the room. We will have, in order, the chair, the vice-chair, the second vice-chair, Ms. Nash, and then the parliamentary secretary, who will present in a press conference. That's Tuesday, right after the presentation.

The other issue is that we do need a subcommittee meeting. It was going to be for 10 a.m. on Tuesday, but obviously we can't do it during the press conference. Mr. McTeague is suggesting Monday night at 6 p.m., and he promises to buy us all dinner.

[Dan McTeague, Liberal, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

I promise to buy you all dinner.

[Paule Brunelle, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Monday evening at 6 p.m.?

[Dan McTeague, Liberal, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

No doubt most of us will be here. I know I will.

[Paule Brunelle, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

I will be in the House.

[Dan McTeague, Liberal, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

What about a little later then, Mr. Chairman?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

How about five o'clock?

[Paule Brunelle, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

After the House rises.

[Dan McTeague, Liberal, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

At 7:30 p.m.?

[Paule Brunelle, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

The House rises around 6:30 p.m.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

We'll finish at 6:30 or 7 o'clock.

[Paule Brunelle, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Around 6:30 or 7 o'clock.