Industry Committee on Dec. 4th, 2007

[Randy Williams]

I think it's a balancing of priorities. Our industry, as we've talked about before, is misunderstood and we are a diverse industry and we are growing at 2% to 3% per year. So there's some sense of comfort, maybe, and not urgency, but I think that is shielding what is underlying: a very stormy period coming up for industry. Once the land and sea components of the WHTI take hold in the United States, we will see continuing record drops of U.S. visitation to Canada. If our economy should start to turn at all in a negative way, then the strength of our domestic travel is going to start to depreciate, and that's what's been holding us together the last five years.

So if you don't believe those two factors are important, then obviously what I'm going to say is not important and won't be a reality. I think it's safe to say that our Canadian economy has some challenging times ahead. We will be dragged down a bit by the American economy. American travel with WHTI is going to depreciate further. Our industry recognizes that.

So in answer to your question, I think it's time that the federal government recognize the challenges of our industry and get ahead of the curve rather than trying to fight this when we hit a real crisis.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

You have 30 seconds left.

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

My last question goes to Mr. Pollard.

You talked about a shortage of workers. You said that you would like to hire more foreign workers and obtain longer work permits for them.

Why do fewer people want to work in your industry? Is it because of salary, or something else?

[Anthony Pollard]

The principal cause is, first of all, where is the problem most significant? Typically it's in resort areas where you have a large operation with a small number of people--to be able to go and get employees in that area. What we've seen is major problems in Alberta and B.C., where you have a booming economy, and quite frankly, people are saying “I'm going to go out and make $25 or $30 an hour as opposed to $12 or $13 an hour”. And they're going to those jobs. It's supply and demand. The higher-priced jobs are out there, and it comes down to something as simple as that.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Okay, thank you.

Merci, Monsieur Vincent.

Now we'll go to Mr. Van Kesteren, please.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you all for coming this morning.

There seems to be an issue that keeps being brought up, and that's the foreign workers program. I think, Mr. Williams, you stated that the government has been active in that. Do you have any more recommendations? You know because you've seen the pilot programs, so do you have some recommendations yet that we can move forward on for this?

[Anthony Pollard]

Thanks.

We've had several meetings with Human Resources and Social Development Canada and with the Department of Citizenship and Immigration. There are two fundamental parts to the temporary foreign workers program. There's the part that Human Resources Canada does, and that's to identify where there are areas in which we need to employ people. We get the blessing of the department there. Then you have to go through the immigration department to make sure that the individual who is being processed is the right person, and that they meet all the criteria to come into Canada.

Minister Solberg announced this expedited labour market program to basically allow people to get in here faster, and, as I said, Minister Flaherty put $50 million worth of money in the budget towards this.

The problem arising now is that if you take an embassy in a country such as Mexico, from which there are a large number of people coming in, you have a backlog of applications, and there are just insufficient people in our embassies, high commissions, etc., around the world to process these applications. Fifty million dollars sounds like a lot of money for the program, but when you look at the number of missions and embassies and high commissions we have all over the world, it's impossible to handle the process.

So we're saying we need to have the resources put against the program in our missions abroad, and we need to ensure that the program is expedited here.

Now on our side, I tell you, I've gone through the process to see how you can actually get people to come here. One of the problems we have is the form itself. We need to educate the hoteliers in a much better way on how to fill the form out. This is what my association is doing. It's like booking an Air Canada ticket online. If you miss two or three of the things, it wll kick you back up to the top, and you start over.

After you've booked four or five tickets, you get to know the process. It is onerous, but that's not the government's fault. We just need to educate people better in that regard. We do need the resources at Human Resources Canada and at Citizenship and Immigration to be able to make the process work better.

What we've also done is develop a tool kit, in Alberta actually, for hoteliers. I know the chairman has met with some of the individuals in that area. We're doing our part to expedite it. We just need to make sure that everybody is working together collectively in this regard.

[Randy Williams]

Mr. Chairman, if I could provide some supplementary remarks to Tony's, 23% of the people working in the 40 job classifications of tourism weren't born in Canada. One-quarter of everyone who's working in the 40 classifications of tourism were not born in Canada, so obviously immigration has an important role.

To answer your question more directly, we must remember that the labour shortage isn't only a Canadian problem. It's a problem with other major economies in the world. This is one we have to wrestle with. We can mitigate it. We won't fix it.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

On that same tone, I'm concerned about that, and obviously labour is a very important factor. We've defeated Bill C-257, which was the replacement workers legislation. It keeps cropping up. There's a new Bill C-415, which is basically the same legislation.

Do you want to comment on the workers legislation?

[Anthony Pollard]

Thank you very much.

We played a role, and we still do, on the former private member's bill. I think this is the 12th one that has come up.

Let me give you a very simple story of what the impact of this would be. It would shut our country down. Any of you who were here, in Ottawa or Toronto, about three summers back when we had the power blackout will remember that within three days the grocery stores were running out of food. This legislation, the replacement workers bill, is critical for not only the hotel industry; you've heard it from all the other sectors--telecommunications, transportation, insurance companies, etc.

Yes, we're very much opposed to it, and in fact we have devoted a significant amount of time to meeting with members of Parliament from all parties to let them know what our opposition to it is.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Be very brief, Mr. Williams, if you can.

[Randy Williams]

I'd just echo Tony's comments. The Tourism Industry Association of Canada is also opposed to this bill.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Van Kesteren.

We'll go to Ms. Nash.

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Williams, you were speaking earlier about the capital-intensive nature of the tourism industry and how much has been invested in new technology. Just as a traveller, I see that in reservation systems. It's something that I assume will continue. The world is changing very quickly.

Briefing notes that were prepared for us by the Library of Parliament say that the average weekly wage in accommodation and food services is well below the Canadian average, at about $304 a week. I'm curious as to why, in an industry that is so capital-intensive, wages are so depressed. Why do you think that is?

[Randy Williams]

You have to look at those numbers with a keener eye. We must remember that our industry employs people at the entry level; it allows people to get into the workforce while they're going to school. We employ people 24 hours a day; we employ people who want a second income with the flexibility to work at a different time than, maybe, their spouse.

Our industry—and that's hospitality, the hospitality sector that is the front line, food and beverage servers and those kinds of things—doesn't factor in, for the most part, gratuities. I'd like our industry to be compared with other opportunities at entry-level, second-wage earner jobs, and also part-time employment.

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

You mean women's jobs, mostly.

[Randy Williams]

No. Well, we employ more women in our workforce than men. Also, the average age of employee is younger than the national average.

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

What would be the average age?

[Randy Williams]

Our average age is somewhere around the 20-year-old level.

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

The average age is 20?

[Randy Williams]

Yes, for that hospitality—

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

For the food and beverage kind of group.

[Randy Williams]

That's it. I'd like—

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

This includes accommodation, though—

[Randy Williams]

That's right, where there's hospitality service.