Industry Committee on May 5th, 2009

[Anthony Rota, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

So the $170 million is not part of SODA? Is it strictly IRAP?

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

It is strictly IRAP. That's correct.

[Anthony Rota, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

Very good.

The other question I have is concerning northern Ontario. As you are aware, I have a private member's bill on the books regarding the FedNor program. I'd like to see it become an agency for reasons of transparency, meaning that when the main estimates are published, the people of northern Ontario should be able to study the allocation of funding with the agency before it's spent, rather than waiting till year-end to see how much of the funding was spent and where it went.

When studying the 2009-2010 main estimates, it's very difficult if not impossible to clearly identify the funding amounts for FedNor and its programs. My request to you today is that you provide the clerk of this committee with the estimates and the numbers for FedNor by the end of the week so we can study FedNor in itself and so I can see the estimated expenses for FedNor for the following year.

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Certainly we will follow the parliamentary calendar and make available when we have available what we should have available. I will say, as the minister responsible for FedNor, which I have been since 2006, that FedNor is a well-regarded agency, as you know. It's a well-regarded program--

[Anthony Rota, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

I liked your first comment better.

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

--in Northern Ontario, and certainly, from my perspective, just as you've expressed concern about administrative costs in IRAP and SODA, I am concerned about your bill increasing administrative costs for a program that is working relatively well.

So you and I may have to respectfully disagree with one another, but I can assure you that on a regular basis I report to northern Ontarians on projects that have been approved. As you know, I was the first minister to announce a five-year guaranteed floor for funding for FedNor. That never happened before under the previous Liberal government. Northern Ontarians got that certainty from our government.

We will table with the clerk for distribution copies of Northern Spirit, which is a wonderful booklet produced by FedNor, which explains some of the programs. We don't print a lot of these, because it's available online. We want to preserve our forests for other uses. But there are a few copies that we have printed up, and we will table them with the clerk for your perusal.

[Anthony Rota, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

Just for clarification, Northern Spirit contains the estimates for FedNor?

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

No, it talks about some of the successful programs.

[Anthony Rota, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

I understand that, Mr. Minister, but I'm asking for the estimates for that program so that we can have them on hand and so we will know what's going into northern Ontario.

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Sure. What I can commit to is that whatever we're required to do, we will certainly do.

[Anthony Rota, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

I take it that's a no.

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

We will always be accountable to the people of Canada.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Mr. Rota. Thank you, Minister.

Mr. Brown.

[Gord Brown, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Minister, for coming. I'm glad we're already getting into a bit of a discussion about regional economic development. As you know, it's something I often speak to you about. And I know it's something that's important to you, since you represent a rural Ontario riding, as do I.

I want to talk a little bit about the eastern Ontario development program. It was first announced back in 2006 by the Prime Minister. Now we have seen commitments in terms of longer-term funding for that program. Maybe you could expand a little bit on how you feel about the community futures program and how it's working in Ontario, as well as on how you feel about the eastern Ontario development program.

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Sure, I'd be happy to.

As the member may remember—I think he actually celebrated this in his constituency last Friday—we recently announced a two-year extension on the eastern Ontario development program, $10 million per year, so $20 million in total. Again, certainty of funding is important for these agencies as they seek to deliver economic development. If you can have a two-year time horizon rather than a one-year time horizon, there are more and better things you can do for the community.

I was able to announce that in Cornwall on Friday with Guy Lauzon, the local MP. We did it at an interesting location—the court house, which has the old gallows still in existence. I didn't find that particularly encouraging, as a politician, but I looked beyond that and made the announcement.

I think EODP is working well. As Mr. Brown knows, it goes through the CFDCs, Community Futures Development Corporations, which has proven to be an effective model—again, not reinventing the wheel, not creating whole new machinery where it's not necessary. I think if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[Gord Brown, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

I'd like to talk about the fact that these community futures boards clearly reflect community priorities. I'd like to hear your views on our continuing that model. I know it's been very well received in the areas it serves.

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

We'll soon be reviewing the terms and conditions, so we will have a good opportunity to make sure it still fits and is modern enough to be effective in today's day and age. My experience has been that the CFDCs, because they have community representation on their boards, are very much in touch with the communities they represent in rural Canada and indeed are able to identify appropriate projects. So that part of it is working well.

One of the things we want to do, if I can hint at something, is make sure they have used their funds in an honest manner. We also want to make sure they quickly turn around the funds. If we're going to give them more funds, for instance, the turnaround should be quick. We don't want the funds to be just sitting in a bank account; we want them to be used in the community in an expeditious but efficacious manner. That's certainly something I'm interested in pursuing.

[Gord Brown, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville, ON]

Thanks, Minister.

I can tell you that in the riding I represent, which has three CFDCs active in the area, in terms of the eastern Ontario development program, there are often way more requests for funding than there is money available. I often attend openings or other celebrations of the projects that have been completed, and they all are very worthwhile in the community.

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Thank you. I appreciate your input.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Mr. Brown.

Mr. Vincent, go ahead please.

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Minister, earlier you spoke about the $12 billion you will be investing in the automotive sector and the $3.775 billion you will be investing in Chrysler. You will hold 66.7% of its shares, while the Government of Ontario will hold 33%—to hold 2% of Chrysler's shares. Some newspapers said that approximately 8,000 jobs would be at stake in this sector.

In the manufacturing sector, 102,400 jobs were lost in the first quarter of 2009 alone. Can you explain to me the disparity between that $3.775 billion and the $170 million allocated to the entire manufacturing and forest sectors in all of Canada? Can you explain to us why so much is allocated here and why, in a sector that has lost 109,000 jobs, only $170 million is being invested over two years for all of Canada? Also why have you given loan guarantees to the automotive sector and none to the forest sector in Quebec?

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

I would like to say a few words about the forest industry. Of course, it's a very important industry for workers and for the Canadian economy. In Budget 2009, in the economic plan for our country, we have concluded that it is important to support that industry through access to credit, for example, through forest management and sylviculture, support for workers in the forest communities, technology and innovation, new markets and things like that. We have supported that industry.

For example, in the case of the automotive industry, we're not just talking about Chrysler and GM, but about the entire automotive sector. For example, with regard to other companies, suppliers, it is important to support them as well. If the automotive sector disappeared from our country, that would represent nearly 500,000 jobs. It would be a disaster for the entire economy not only in Ontario, but across the country.

It is important to say that, when the United States, under the Bush administration and then under the Obama administration, decided to support that industry, our choice was to support it as well. Otherwise, that industry would cease to exist in Canada.

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

I understand you; you're saying that, if the Americans had decided to support the forest sector, you would have done so as well. However, since the Americans are supporting the automotive sector, you're doing that as well.

Don't you think that everyone here in Canada must have the same chances and the same rights? And why favour one sector over another, and allow the forest sector to completely disappear by failing to grant it loan guarantees?

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

I don't agree with you, with your interpretation. We have supported the forest industry as well, in accordance with the manner in which it asked us to support it, by developing new markets, for example and introducing innovations in the industry.

That's one way the forest industry wants our government to support it, and we responded to its request in budget 2009, in the Economic Action Plan. I think those measures are specific to that industry.

In Quebec, of course, there is a council established with the Government of Quebec to find other ways of supporting that industry.

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

I know you handle a lot of your files and that you are aware of all those you are piloting. However, you know that, in June 2007, the Standing Committee on Industry, Science and Technology tabled its eighth report, entitled, “Counterfeiting and Piracy are Theft”. That report contains some 20 recommendations. I'd like to know from you how many of those recommendations have been put forward.