Industry Committee on June 10th, 2010

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Today is Thursday, June 10, 2010. Welcome to the 22nd meeting of the Standing Committee on Industry, Science and Technology.

We're here pursuant to Standing Order 81(5) to review the supplementary estimates (A) for 2010-11. We have a number of votes to review today. We're going to spend one hour in giving members of the committee a chance to review the estimates and then we'll take the vote just before 10 o'clock. At 10 o'clock, we'll switch up and move into the second item on the orders of the day, which is the review of Bill C-14.

Without further ado, we have in front of us today Richard Dicerni, the deputy minister, Department of Industry; Mr. Paul Boothe, the senior associate deputy minister; and Madam Kelly Gillis, the chief financial officer of the department.

Welcome to all three of you. It's delightful to have you here. Thank you for coming on such short notice.

We'll begin with Mr. McTeague.

[Dan McTeague, Liberal, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

Actually, Chair, we have given this careful consideration, and it may come as music to the ears of our friends here on the other side, but we have no questions of the witnesses.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Okay. Thank you.

Go ahead, Mr. Bouchard.

[Robert Bouchard, Bloc, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have several questions and I want to thank you for allowing me to ask them.

First of all, welcome to today's meeting. I have a few questions concerning the Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of Quebec.

Mention has been made of over $32 million in supplementary estimates. What exactly are the additional funds being requested for? Are these capital funds? Are they funds to subsidize businesses or non-profit organizations? What exactly will the money be used for?

[Richard Dicerni, Deputy Minister, Department of Industry]

Unfortunately, I do not have a great deal of information to share with you about these additional funds, as this is not really the responsibility of the minister or of the department. One day, we will have to speak to the people who draw up these documents to have them clearly distinguish between the areas for which we are responsible and those for which we are not.

When I last appeared before your committee, Mr. Massé asked me similar questions about the Federal Economic Development Agency for Southern Ontario. I pointed out to him then that there was a minister responsible for this file and that we had no right of review over this agency's operations and that consequently, we were not accountable for the way in which supplementary estimates were spent.

[Robert Bouchard, Bloc, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

So then, if I understand correctly, you request the additional funds, but the $32 million in question are earmarked for the Economic Development Agency of Canada.

[Richard Dicerni]

Yes, these funds are earmarked for the Economic Development Agency of Canada. I have no hierarchic relationship with this agency. It has its own minister and deputy ministers and has been delegated full authority to make the decisions needed to identify the areas in which it wants to get involved.

[Robert Bouchard, Bloc, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

I see. I understand what you're saying, but why have these funds been requested? If I understand correctly, you are requesting these additional funds on their behalf. Isn't that right?

[Richard Dicerni]

Perhaps I could ask Ms. Gillis to explain to you how it works.

We complete the portion of the request that concerns the department, that is we request funds through the supplementary estimates process. I'm more than willing to talk to you about that. However, the government bureaucracy includes in the budget papers the funding for development agencies which now operate in a fully independent way. There isn't even any kind of sovereignty-association relationship between the department and these agencies.

[Robert Bouchard, Bloc, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Fine then. My question pertains to the Economic Development Agency of Canada and the requests for excessive amounts, or additional funding. You've given me an answer and I thank you very much. I had an inkling of what that answer would be, namely that authority is really delegated to the minister himself and to the department. Since there was an amount entered here, I thought that you would have this information. It's all right.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Go ahead, Monsieur Cardin.

[Serge Cardin, Bloc, Sherbrooke, QC]

Maybe it would be appropriate then to have Mr. Lebel appear before the committee. Is he not the responsible official?

[Richard Dicerni]

I believe that would be Ms. Vinet, the deputy minister.

[Serge Cardin, Bloc, Sherbrooke, QC]

Mr. Chair, how much time do we have to discuss these supplementary estimates?

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

I believe we have three days until the conclusion of the business of supply.

It's three days before the end of supply, and I believe the last day of supply is yet to be determined. It's supposed to be June 23, but as you know, Parliament may rise early. It might have to be reported by next week, by June 15. If supply ends on Friday, June 18, then the estimates would be deemed reported by June 15.

[Serge Cardin, Bloc, Sherbrooke, QC]

Tomorrow is June 11. Next Tuesday is the cut-off date. So, we could hear from Mr. Lebel on Tuesday.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

We could, if that is what the committee wants, but...

[Serge Cardin, Bloc, Sherbrooke, QC]

The circumstances are rather unique. I'm not trying to be critical in any way. However, we're being asked to examine supplementary estimates and we don't have the responsible officials here with us.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Well, the deputy minister is here, along with the assistant deputy minister and the chief financial officer.

[Serge Cardin, Bloc, Sherbrooke, QC]

Mr. Dicerni is telling us that he has no authority over this agency. Minister Lebel does have that authority. Therefore, I think it would be a good idea to extend an invitation to him.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Certainly, but I don't think there's a wish on the part of the committee to review this on Tuesday for a second hour and to have another group of witnesses. However, if the committee directs me otherwise, we will do that.

I'll take your point. If members of the committee indicate to me in a majority fashion that they wish to have a second hour to review the supplementary estimates and to have a different group of witnesses, then I will do so, but I don't think that's the wish of the committee.

If you have any further questions, go ahead.

[Serge Cardin, Bloc, Sherbrooke, QC]

Mr. Chair, you can't assume anything. We would need to ask the committee. I think others would be interested in my colleague's question regarding the Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of Quebec.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Okay.

To the members of the committee, is it the wish of the members to have a second hour to review supplementary estimates (A) and to call a different group of witnesses?

[Some hon. members]

No.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

No. I don't see consent to do this.

Monsieur Bouchard.