Evidence of meeting #29 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 40th Parliament, 3rd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was questions.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Dan McTeague Liberal Pickering—Scarborough East, ON
Thank you, Chair.
Mr. Coleman, I don't know what column you're referring to by Mr. Weston. I hate to keep raising his name, since he wasn't able to be here, but I know he no longer writes for the Sun. You must be referring to an article before last week. Is that correct?
Liberal
Dan McTeague Liberal Pickering—Scarborough East, ON
Thank you.
Mr. Coleman, perhaps you can answer this question. It's my understanding that to assure accuracy of surveys and polls, you and other organizations, regardless of who you are, have to rely on Statistics Canada, particularly the long questionnaire, to provide the proper weight. You have to compare it to something, otherwise you're basically, to use an aphorism, calculating based on nothing.
I'm wondering why you don't think that's important. If what we're weighting against is inaccurate and off by 20% or 30%, obviously that means nothing. But I'm sure when it comes to the finances of this country and the accuracy of ensuring that taxpayers get value for their money, which your organization is very much in favour of, wouldn't you want to have reliable, credible, unbiased information? Otherwise your argument makes no sense, sir.
President and Chief Executive Officer, National Citizens Coalition
Let me be square with you. When we do our surveys, we pay for them ourselves as an organization. Our members pay for our surveys with questions that we do want. I do believe the partisan stuff has to stop as far as this dialogue as far as the census.
I do agree with you that information's critical in some areas. I do not agree at all with forcing people to do this. I do believe you need to have information to run the country properly. I'm with you there. I think you have to strike the balance between privacy and everything else before you get to the final decision. Try to take the political blinders off, for all of you, and come to a proper decision that all taxpayers in this country would value.
Liberal
Dan McTeague Liberal Pickering—Scarborough East, ON
Mr. Coleman, it's hard for us to hear that kind of comment on partisanship and political blinders when your predecessor is in fact the Prime Minister of a Conservative government, and a former Reform and Alliance member.
Madam Stoddart, I'm wondering if I can ask you to reiterate, notwithstanding what happened prior to your time, is it fair to say 50 complaints, again, in 20 years? During your period of time, in the last 10, could you be more precise as to the number of complaints your office has received? I'm talking about your term as Privacy Commissioner--the last 10 years, covering most of your term as commissioner.
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
I believe, honourable member, as I mentioned, the complaints dropped off after 2001. I believe there are only six, if I remember correctly--I could stand to be corrected--in the last decade.
Liberal
Dan McTeague Liberal Pickering—Scarborough East, ON
Okay.
To the panel--I'd just like to take a poke at this--do any of you think a person should be put under the threat of jail or a fine for answering how much manure is produced on one's farm? Mr. Anderson may have avoided that in his comments, but I think the point has to be made that it's voluntary for urban Canada and involuntary and forceful in rural Canada. It seems to me that's terribly unfair to a portion of the country.
Of the complaints you've received, has there been a disproportionate number from rural Canada or urban Canada, or have you been able to parse them?
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
We haven't been able to parse them. We could certainly try, if it would be useful for the committee.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Michael Chong
If you do want to submit further information, Madam Stoddart, submit it to the Clerk of the Committee, and I'll ensure that she distributes it to members of the committee.
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
Okay. We'll have to get back to you to see if that analysis can be done.
Liberal
Dan McTeague Liberal Pickering—Scarborough East, ON
Before I pass this on to Mr. Rota, I think it's paramount, fundamental, and beyond question that the long form is absolutely indispensable to the integrity of the system of statistics and the weighting of all other considerations, including surveys, regardless of what polling company you work for and whatever business interest you might have.
Mr. Rota may have just one final question.
Liberal
Anthony Rota Liberal Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON
I have a very short question for Ms. Stoddart.
We've heard a lot of talk about the penalty end of things, and that seems to be what our Conservative friends are concentrating on.
Complaints that you've had in your office...and I'm not saying that we should or we shouldn't. I mean, they still continue to think that we should imprison farmers and agricultural people who don't fill out the form, but everybody else doesn't.
The penalty or the privacy issue--which issue comes forward to you?
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
The privacy issue.
Liberal
Anthony Rota Liberal Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON
That's pretty well it. So the penalty is really a red herring that the Conservatives are putting out there and that, really, nobody else is talking about other than them.
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
I can't answer that question.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Michael Chong
Thank you, Madam Stoddart.
I want to thank all of our witnesses for their testimony today. This meeting is suspended until 4:45.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Michael Chong
Welcome, members, to the continuation of our 29th meeting of the Standing Committee on Industry, Science and Technology. We're here pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) for a study of the long-form portion of the census.
Mr. Gravelle, I believe you want to move a motion.
NDP
Claude Gravelle NDP Nickel Belt, ON
Yes, sir.
Mr. Chair, in light of all of the expert testimony that we've heard today, that if we take away the mandatory long-form census it will hurt a lot of communities and a lot of organizations, and despite the Conservatives not wanting to listen to the experts, I'm going to present this motion, which was circulated yesterday.
Would you like me to read it, or is that okay?
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Michael Chong
I believe all members have a copy of it in both official languages, so there's no need to read it.
The motion is on the floor. Is there any debate on the motion?
Mr. Lake.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB
Mr. Chair, looking at the motion, I'm trying to figure out exactly what it's asking for. He notes the long-form census is a vital tool, but his statement here is: “Therefore, the government should immediately reverse the changes to the long-form census.”
I'm not sure what changes he's talking about. Is he talking about the changes to the 2011 census? Is this where he's going with that? Is he talking about changes from 2006? There were questions added, so should we take those questions out, questions that have been added and are new to the 2011 national household survey? Do we want those questions taken out? They were questions that were removed from the 2006 long-form census. Should we add those questions back in? I'm just not clear.
For example, in the 2011 census, one of the new questions is what time do people leave for work in the morning? Is he suggesting that in reversing the changes this question be taken out? Maybe we can get some clarification on that.
Another new question that wasn't there in 2006, but is in 2011, is the religion question that we talked about. Does he want that religion question taken out of the 2011 national household survey? Maybe we can get some clarification on specific questions that we're talking about.
Conservative
NDP
Claude Gravelle NDP Nickel Belt, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
As Mr. Lake well knows, the government--his government--has control over the questions. What I'm suggesting is to reverse the changes, to reinstate the mandatory long-form census. That's the only thing I'm talking about, not the questions. The government controls the questions.