Evidence of meeting #32 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was data.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Coordinator, Social Planning Council of Winnipeg
It's hard for me to reply to that, as I think it would be for anybody else. We don't like mandatory fines and things like that, but we have certain other instances where we get fined—
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB
With respect, though, mandatory means penalty, so there has to be a penalty. The penalty is a fine or jail time.
Coordinator, Social Planning Council of Winnipeg
I have to stop at a stop sign. If I don't, I risk a fine.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB
The safety of others is at risk if you don't stop at the stop sign, though. I think you'd have a hard time convincing this mother of three who is living near the poverty line that someone else's safety or life is at risk because she doesn't tell the government how much housework she did last week.
Coordinator, Social Planning Council of Winnipeg
When the reason for that question is explained—which I think is one of the problems we're dealing with, because we have been so used to having just the questions and not the reasons behind them—I think it would give some benefit to a person in that situation—
Conservative
Coordinator, Social Planning Council of Winnipeg
—and we're asking that person, therefore, to respond, to give that information so that we can address that question as Canadians.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB
So if new Canadians receive a census form that asks them what their religion is and they say they're uncomfortable answering that question, should they be fined $500 or threatened with jail time?
Coordinator, Social Planning Council of Winnipeg
I might say the fine should be $10.
Coordinator, Social Planning Council of Winnipeg
I think the question is real and has verity, and in order to make it mandatory, you have to have some penalty. If we're talking about jail and $500, we're talking about the extremities of that penality.
That's a different question from whether it's mandatory.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB
We're not, actually. It's $500 per question. So when you multiply it by the number of questions, it's pretty significant. I think there's some clarity needed in the argument.
Conservative
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
I'm just curious. Could we have the researchers give us information about how many people have been fined and how much?
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Michael Chong
That's not a point of order, but that's something we'll get them to do.
If you have requests of the chair that aren't points of order, please take them up with me after the meeting or when your intervention takes place, so that we can give the people who do have the floor the full time.
Mr. Lake, go ahead.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I acknowledge the fairness of that question. I guess the answer to that question is that it's the threat of fines and jail time.
If you're a new Canadian coming to Canada and you have somebody at your door asking you questions such as what your religion is or how much time you spend with your kids, and it's your first experience with the government—because, let's face it, that person is seen as a representative of the government—I think your being threatened with fines and jail time for not answering is an issue.
Maybe I'll see if Mr. Oh wants to respond to that.
Honorary President of the Mississauga Chinese Business Association, Confederation of Greater Toronto Chinese Business Association
In my contact with the communities, the feedback I had was that this survey was not a big deal, and why do you make it so political? What the country should do now is focus on the economy and jobs. We should stay ahead of the G-7. The average person is not interested in why we're sitting here today. I don't think it's important. I think the most important thing is the economy and job creation.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB
Mr. Rutherford, you look as though you might want to weigh in on this.
As an Individual
There's just one thing. We talked about the validity of the answers if the questions are voluntary. I think that's the premise that the statisticians are suggesting, that a voluntary response doesn't have the same material value as a mandatory response.
I think that's pretty much what has been said.
Conservative
As an Individual
I just want to know if that is the premise, because clearly the obvious question—
