Evidence of meeting #32 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was data.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
Are you aware, Mr. Oh, that the president of the United Way, Mr. Al Hatton, wrote to the government—he and a number of other people—asking them to keep the mandatory long form?
12:40 p.m.
Honorary President of the Mississauga Chinese Business Association, Confederation of Greater Toronto Chinese Business Association
Yes, I am. I also have a copy of the paper here to talk about the mapping they are doing in Peel region. That was published less than 10 days ago.
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
But do you know why the president of United Way of Canada is asking that the government reverse its decision and maintain the mandatory long-form census?
12:40 p.m.
Honorary President of the Mississauga Chinese Business Association, Confederation of Greater Toronto Chinese Business Association
Yes.
12:40 p.m.
Honorary President of the Mississauga Chinese Business Association, Confederation of Greater Toronto Chinese Business Association
They think the information is important to them. But I doubt that if they are doing two things at the same time.
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
Sir, we verified with the United Way, and according to them, the data obtained by the long-form census, which has been mandatory up until now, is the only source of reliable and comprehensive data regarding individuals and families in the local neighbourhood communities. They want this to be maintained, to be able to continue doing community mapping not only in Peel, but they do it in Ottawa and in other communities as well.
My next question to you is on the accuracy. You said because the government will increase from 20% to 30% the number of people getting the long form, although it's no longer mandatory, this will provide greater accuracy.
12:40 p.m.
Honorary President of the Mississauga Chinese Business Association, Confederation of Greater Toronto Chinese Business Association
Yes, because I believe voluntary information is more accurate than mandatory.
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
Everything we've heard, sir, up to now from the experts, from the people who administer the census forms, from the Chief Statistician who quit over this, from Mr. Veall today, and from others, maintains the opposite: that the voluntary form will not be as accurate, that there's a built-in bias.
I'll perhaps ask Mr. Veall or Monsieur Beaud to comment on that, to see if my understanding or comprehension of what they're saying is accurate.
Would you care, gentlemen, to comment?
12:40 p.m.
Dean, Faculty of Political Science and Law, University of Québec in Montréal, As an Individual
I listened to a journalist interviewing a member of an association representing francophones outside Quebec, I believe. What was said was very interesting. The member was complaining, of course, about the demise of the long form. The journalist teased her slightly by suggesting that she tell her people to respond in large numbers to the voluntary questionnaire. Overestimating something is as problematic as underestimating it.
The problem is not the 30%. Statisticians know very well how to work with a questionnaire that applies to 20% of the population, which is a significant percentage. It is the representativeness of the sample that is fundamental. Yet, this is only possible through a mandatory questionnaire. Penalties are another issue. I worked on the history of Statistics Canada. I found some letters in the archives.
August 27th, 2010 / 12:40 p.m.
Professor, Department of Economics, McMaster University, As an Individual
If it would have been possible to run a pilot test, we would have been able to give an absolute definitive answer to your question, but with all the information we have, yes, the voluntary survey will be less accurate.
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
All right. Thank you.
Do I have time, Mr. Chairman, for a final question?
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
All right.
Mr. Oh, the voluntary census has been tested in the United States and they've moved away from it. They've gone back; they've abandoned it.
As a businessman, do you think it's a wise decision to spend $30 million more to send the questionnaire to 30% instead of 20%, for less accurate information?
12:40 p.m.
Honorary President of the Mississauga Chinese Business Association, Confederation of Greater Toronto Chinese Business Association
There is no figure you pointed out to say that the 30% are inaccurate. Do you have that statistic to say that?
12:45 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Michael Chong
Mr. Oh, Mr. Bélanger gave his position to you in his intervention.
We're now going to go to Mr. Wallace.
12:45 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair; and thank you, guests, for coming.
I do appreciate Mr. Rutherford pointing out that the long-form census is still in existence. We just aren't able to call it a census because it's not mandatory.
The previous long form went to 2.5 million people; this one is going to 4.5 million. Even assuming a 70% return rate, that's almost one million more returns, going from 2.3 million to 3.1 million returns.
I just want to make one quick comment about the previous panel where somebody from the National Statistics Council was saying that if a survey in English is sent to a French community, whether one sends 1,500 or 3,000 forms, the response rate will be lousy. Well, of course, because the bias against the French-speaking individual is built into both surveys. It had nothing to do with the volume they're sending. So it was kind of an odd example that somebody from the National Statistics Council was using to try to make a point.
I'll ask a couple of questions here, and maybe I'll start with Mr. Murdoch—I don't mean to pick on you.
Are you aware of the Canadian community health survey done by Statistics Canada?
12:45 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
Do you consider those responses less accurate because it's voluntary?