Evidence of meeting #32 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was data.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Coordinator, Social Planning Council of Winnipeg
They're less accurate than the census. But the census doesn't ask those kinds of health questions, so the best we have at the moment is the survey.
Mr. Lake indicated, in terms of P.E.I., that you'll have a count, but you won't have any flavour behind that count.
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
Let me give you some more examples of what Statistics Canada sends out as voluntary.
There's the adult education and training survey. There are general surveys on victimization, social engagement, families, and retirement. There is a national population health survey and a post-secondary education participation survey. There's a whole list here. All these are done on a voluntary basis.
So are you telling me that the only valid information that organizations in the Winnipeg area will use is, every five years, the long-form census? Or is this other information actually also valid?
Coordinator, Social Planning Council of Winnipeg
The other information is valid, but when it comes from StatsCan, you have to recognize that they have the ability to look at the census data as a way of correcting bias. If you don't have that kind of census background, you cannot test for bias.
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
I'm going to ask you another question. West European countries, such as Norway and Denmark, are often cited by social service organizations as having great social services. Their taxes are a little bit high, in my view, but they provide a tremendous amount of service and our opposition members often like to quote them.
You are aware that they do not have a census program.
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
Without a mandatory census, are they still able to plan and understand where their poor are, where their needs are, and where their issues are, to provide social services?
Coordinator, Social Planning Council of Winnipeg
Yes, because they have a different system for getting that information. You have your personal ID card. If you move, you have to register that move. If you go to school, you have to register that with your card, and so on. That's how they map out where people are and the characteristics of people.
I think it has been said here that, in the North American context, it would not fly. So you have to have an alternative, and we have a traditional—
Conservative
Coordinator, Social Planning Council of Winnipeg
It's just because I'm from Winnipeg.
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
No.
For the last census, the response rate was 95%. Regarding that 95%, is the threat of jail time and fines the motivating factor, for the group that you represent, or do they do it because they think it's the right thing to do as Canadians? Of that 95%, does your group really believe the only reason they filled it out was that they might get a $500 fine?
Coordinator, Social Planning Council of Winnipeg
I have no evidence to give you in that regard.
Conservative
Bloc
Serge Cardin Bloc Sherbrooke, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Welcome, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for being here today.
My first question is for Mr. Oh.
You said in the beginning of your testimony that you were not interested in answering intimate questions. Could you give me an example of a sensitive question in the questionnaire that you were uncomfortable answering ?
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Michael Chong
Mr. Oh, Mr. Cardin asked you about your having mentioned that there were sensitive questions that you wouldn't be comfortable in answering. He is asking you what specific kinds of questions those would be.
Honorary President of the Mississauga Chinese Business Association, Confederation of Greater Toronto Chinese Business Association
I didn't state any specific intimate questions that I would not be answering.
Serge Cardin Bloc Sherbrooke, QC
You simply said that you did not like answering intimate questions. Have you ever filled out a mandatory long form before?
Honorary President of the Mississauga Chinese Business Association, Confederation of Greater Toronto Chinese Business Association
No, I haven't received one yet.
Bloc
Serge Cardin Bloc Sherbrooke, QC
It is just because, from your remarks, you do not seem very fond of mandatory forms. All the examples or comparisons are not perfect, but let's take a mandatory form that you must fill out each year, at the risk of being fined or even imprisoned. I am referring here to your tax return.
If the tax return was no longer mandatory but voluntary, do you think there would be that many people filling it out?
Honorary President of the Mississauga Chinese Business Association, Confederation of Greater Toronto Chinese Business Association
No, if it is for the survey, of course, it's not as detailed as what the Canada Revenue Agency sends to us, and I think people will fill it out.
Bloc
Serge Cardin Bloc Sherbrooke, QC
I just wanted to point out that there are still forms to which penalties are attached. They even go as far as imprisonment. The government will not change its position on the penalties. Of course, that means having to look for money. People are taking part in the public and social efforts, but it is obvious that a census also contributes to the evolution of society. For this to work, if we want to gather accurate information, the census should also be mandatory. I am just trying to say that—and the Conservatives are well aware of this—there are still penalties and prison sentences associated with certain optional forms.
I would like to go back to what was said earlier. As Mr. Lake mentioned, there is still the mandatory short form. I would like to know what incentives will still be offered, for example, so that people fill it out because it is mandatory.
As to jail time, we could resolve the issue immediately and reinstate the mandatory form. However, there may be fines, no question about that.
Mr. Bélisle mentioned positive reinforcement a little earlier.
