Industry Committee on Oct. 26th, 2010

[Dr. Frank Plummer]

I don't have any experience with CAMR directly. Certainly the regulatory strength and procurement skills in many developing countries are quite challenged. I expect that could be a problem, but I don't have any personal experience with this issue.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Somebody could answer that.

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

Could Ms. Akugizibwe, who is in South Africa, perhaps answer my question?

[Paula Akugizibwe]

Yes, I can venture a response. From my understanding of the process, one of the reasons it took a long time was that the legislation requires that the country first express its desire to purchase the drugs from the Canadian company, which is a bit of a catch-22 situation, because in order for that to happen, the company has to be able to take part in the national tender process, which would require the compulsory licence.

I think one of the greatest advantages of the amendment to this legislation is that there would be a sort of one-licence submission, whereby the company would not require a country to come forward and explicitly express interest in order to be able to export these drugs. That would greatly reduce the bureaucratic impediments in future.

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

Do you think that prospective recipient countries know how to use the current regime?

[Paula Akugizibwe]

I'm afraid I can't actually comment on that; I haven't had enough direct conversation with people who have attempted to use the regime.

But from what I was familiar with when I was in Rwanda, which is around the time these negotiations were taking place, I think there was certainly a great deal of confusion around the bureaucracy that was created through the procedures entailed in this legislation.

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

Thank you.

My next question is for Mr. Keon.

When Mr. Russell Williams answered the last question he was asked, he said that all we had to do was invite generic medicine companies to work together on getting the regime to work. Will you follow Mr. Williams's suggestion? Is the Canadian Generic Pharmaceutical Association prepared to collaborate with patented pharmaceutical companies?

[Jim Keon]

Each company must decide if it wants to use the current legislation. It's clear that, in Canada, the legislation is complex. Other companies know what happened in the Apotex case and, for now, they have decided that it's not worth their while to try to use the legislation.

As I said, our companies already export generic medicines to developing countries, but it is currently too difficult to try to use this legislation and to obtain a licence authorizing the export of patented medicines.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you, Mr. Keon and Monsieur Malo.

Mr. Keon, I have you here as a witness for the Canadian Generic Pharmaceutical Association, but then you said “our company”.

[Jim Keon]

I meant our companies that I represent in the association.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Okay, so it was in the translation. I apologize.

All right. Now we're on to Mr. Van Kesteren for five minutes.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

And thank you, witnesses, for appearing--those on the video as well.

This is a very complicated piece of legislation. I know there's a lot of emotion running very high here, and understandably so: we see the death and the devastation in the continent of Africa.

All of us would certainly like to be effective in whatever we decide on, and with that in mind, it has become apparent with the different groups we've spoken to that this has to be a concerted effort. This has to be a global effort. This has to be something we all participate in.

I want to direct my questions...and I have a few, for Mr. Plummer at least.

Sir, I want to ask what you think are currently the best ways for drugs to get to Africa. Can you give us some detail on how this government is expanding and supporting its efforts to Africa?

[Dr. Frank Plummer]

My experience is largely limited to Kenya, and there drugs are procured through the global fund and its processes.

In terms of what the Canadian government is doing, its contributions have primarily been financial, to things like the global fund, and organizations like GAVI, to help in their efforts to make medicines and vaccines more widely available.

My own expertise in this area is relatively limited.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

How do you feel about Canada's focus on getting drugs into Africa? I guess that's the question I'm asking. Should we support legislation like this? Is this the solution, or should we support current efforts of India and perhaps the U.S.?

[Dr. Frank Plummer]

Well, from my understanding of the situation and listening to the witnesses, I can't really speak to flaws in this area; it's not my area of expertise. But obviously many countries around the world have similar legislation that hasn't been accessed.

My understanding is that antiretrovirals are readily available at the moment. That may not be the case in the future, but currently they are readily available through systems like the global fund.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

We haven't spoken much about the Gates Foundation, but again, collectively, if we were to combine our efforts with organizations such as the Gates Foundation, contributing to providing the most vulnerable with the treatment and medicine they need, is that a direction we should be looking towards as well? Is that something we need to examine more?

[Dr. Frank Plummer]

Yes. I would say that we need multiple mechanisms, and the Government of Canada is doing that. The Gates Foundation contributes to the global fund, to GAVI, to other similar multilateral bodies, and I would think we should continue to do that.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

How much time do I have?

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Two more minutes, Mr. Van Kesteren.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

I'd just like to make a statement. I think it's something that's very important.

There's a misconception in this place as well—you and I have talked about that, Mr. Chair, on different occasions—that we're driven by big business and big money. There was some interesting legislation that was passed in this government, the Federal Accountability Act, that limited all of our funds for our campaigns and the money we collect as politicians to get re-elected, quite frankly. I say that because that's really important. We will oftentimes be visited. We had the pharmaceuticals and we had the generic people here today, all very good people, and they all have very good interests at heart, but ultimately we want to do what's right for Canadian society.

So when we attack legislation like this, we can do so with an open framework, because we have to operate on the rule of law, as a society, and governments that do that will continue to grow strong, they'll continue to grow wealth, and subsequently, they can help those less fortunate. So we have to keep those things in mind.

Maybe I could get a comment. I guess what I'm trying to get from my panellists is this. What's the best thing we can do as Canadians? What's the best area we can put our efforts into to get the greatest impact to help this crisis that continues to develop in the continent of Africa? If somebody wants to jump in and just make a comment, feel free.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Mr. Keon.

[Jim Keon]

I would reiterate in part what others said today. We're here reviewing this particular piece of legislation, CAMR, and suggested amendments to it. We generally support the bill, subject to the one clarification.

In terms of medicines, that's what the companies that I represent make: they make generic medicines, good-quality medicines from Canada, approved by Health Canada. They can contribute more to the international situation. Whether it's the Gates Foundation or the global fund, if generics are available for important medicines, then the dollars in the global fund and the Gates Foundation will go farther. I think it's complementary, so I would encourage the committee to look very seriously at this bill and look at passing some of these amendments.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you, Mr. Keon.

Mr. Jenner, did you have a comment on this? We only have about 30 seconds, anyway.

[Andrew Jenner]

Yes, thank you.

From my perspective, and certainly from a Geneva perspective, the global fund is a fantastic mechanism in order to facilitate medicine procurement. Because of its massive purchasing power and the scope of operations that it does, it makes sure that virtually all the medicines it procures have gone through safe and efficacy measures, for example, using the WHO pre-qualification process. I think that is where a real focus can happen. When we think about access, sustainable access, to medicines, I think the global fund is certainly one of the most successful options.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you, Mr. Jenner.

Mr. Plummer, go ahead.